10 replies to this topic

[Cato Zilks]

• Snub Nose PPC
  
  • This is the Sarna description: "The Snub-Nose PPC is to a Particle Projector Cannon as a sawed-off shotgun is to a shotgun. The Draconis Combine-produced version of the weapon is slightly lighter than a standard PPC, but its energy discharge trails off considerably faster, leading to shorter range and reduced damage capacity over range. An interesting side benefit is the dramatically increased short range, longer than almost any other weapon."
    
    Now, you did the opposite. Moreover, you made it hotter than a regular PPC. Now I get that you don’t want it OP so some downsides should be expected.
    
  • 
    What should change:
    
    • Drop the heat from 10 down to 9.5 (= to PPC)
      
    • 
      Increase the optimal range to 375, but have the max range only 550 (better respects weapon profile + gives it a range disadvantage vs PPC).
      
      • If it still feels too strong, decrease the pinpoint damage to 9 with two .5 splash damages (total of 10 damage)
• Light PPC
  
  • Adjusting ghost heat on this was spot on. Thanks! It still needs a bit more to distinguish the Light PPC from a regular PPC.
    
  • What should change:
    
    • Reduce the cooldown to 3.75 (-.25). 2 LPPCs get better dps but worse heat management compared to 1 PPC.
• 
  Heavy PPC
  
  • So, IS already gets less tonnage and space to work compared to clans: LFE’s are heavier, Endo and Ferro take up more space, our weapons are bigger, our weapons are heavier. So a big heavy weapon like this just costs us even more compared to what it would for the clans.
    
    The Heavy PPC is the IS finally getting a PPC to do Clan level damage (though it keeps the downside of the IS PPC). We don’t need the splash reduced. We don’t need a min range reduction. We need this 4 Slot, 10 ton Monster to do 15 pinpoint damage. It should be comparable to the C-ERPPC in the damage department but has its one benefit be no splash (for the cost of 2x space and 66% more weight). Also heat should be equal to C-ERPPC.
    
  • What should change:
    
    • 
      15 pinpoint damage. No splash.
      
    • 
      Have C-ERPPC heat of 14.0 (or bump C-ERPPC to 14.5).
• 
  MRMs
  
  • 
    The speed upgrade is great!
    
  • The real issue is a visual one: if all the missile are to go at the exact spot you targeted, they need to leave the tubes all at once. Otherwise have the later missiles track where the reticule was when they were released.
    
  • 
    What should change:
    
    • 
      Just pick a firing style and go with it.
• 
  RAC/5
  
  • The heat to damage ratio is wrong for an AC/5.
    
    • 
      AC/5 does 5-dam/1.66-sec and produces 1.5-heat/1.66-sec. The RAC/5 needs to match that, and since it seems so sluggish the damage should rise to meet the heat.
      
    • The current RAC/5 heat rate is 4-heat/1-sec, which in terms of the AC/5 firing cycle is 6.64-heat/1.66-sec.
      
    • Now, 6.64 / 1.5 (AC5 heat) = 4.3. That means that based on the heat level there should be 4.3 RAC/5 shots per single AC5 shot.
      
    • 4.3 x 5 = 21.5-dam/1.66sec or 12.95-dam/1-sec.
  • The spin up time kills DPS and makes the weapon strictly inferior to a UAC/5.
    
    • With the UAC
      
      • You see an enemy at time X. Between reaction time and moving your reticule you take .6 seconds to aim. You double tap and do 10 damage by X+1.1-sec.The second round of double tap starts at X+2.26, and you have done 20 damage by X+2.76.
    • With the RAC/5.
      
      • You see an enemy at time X. You take .3 to react and get the barrels spinning. At 1.3-sec, you begin dealing damage. So by the time you reach that initial 10 damage that UAC put out it is already 2.2-sec. At X+2.76 the RAC/5 will have done 15.94-dam (4.06 less than a UAC/5).
        
      • It is not until between shots 5 & 6 from the UAC, that the RAC actually surpasses the UAC’s damage.
  • What should change:
    
    • Increase the damage to 12.95/sec.
      
    • Let us hit a key to get the barrels spinning so there is not a fire delay at all (just like we can have missile bay doors open).
      
    • Don't have the jam bar reduce while the weapon is jammed. Make jams a real pain in the rump.
      
      • Eliminate Ghost heat entirely from RAC weapons, but have the jam bar move faster when more RACs are firing. They are already hot enough and the jam mechanic is more punishing (you can’t coolant flush your way out of it).
        
      • Allow two RAC/5s to fire without jam penalty. This allows a 4 RAC/5 mech the ability to rotate their fire between the jam bars to keep the fire rate up, while still putting respectable firepower out.
• RAC/2
  
  • The heat to damage ratio is wrong for an AC/2.
    
    • AC/2 does 2-dam/.72-sec and produces .6-heat/.72-sec. The RAC/2 needs to match that, and again I want to match to the heat.
      
    • The current RAC/2 heat rate is 2-heat/1-sec, which in terms of the AC/2 firing cycle is 1.44-heat/.72-sec.
      
    • Now, 1.44 / .6 (AC2 heat) = 2.4. That means that based on the heat level there should be 2.4 RAC/2 shots per single AC2 shot.
      
    • 2.4 x 2 = 4.8-dam/.72-sec or 6.66-dam/1-sec.
  • The spin up time kills DPS and makes the weapon strictly inferior to a UAC/2.
    
    • With the UAC/2
      
      • You see an enemy at time X. Between reaction time and moving your reticule you take .6 seconds to aim. You double tap and do 4 damage by X+.9-sec.The second round of double tap starts at X+1.62, and you have done 8 damage by X+2.
    • With the RAC/2.
      
      • You see an enemy at time X. You take .3 to react and get the barrels spinning. At 1.05-sec, you begin dealing damage. So by the time you reach that initial 4 damage that UAC put out it is already 1.76-sec. At X+2 the RAC/2 will have done 5.32-dam (2.68 less than a UAC).
        
      • It is not until between shots 9 & 10 from the UAC/2, that the RAC/2 actually surpasses the UAC’s damage (though both should jam before then).
  • What should change:
    
    • Increase the damage to 6.66/sec.
      
    • Let us hit a key to get the barrels spinning so there is not a fire delay at all (just like we can have missile bay doors open).
      
    • Don't have the jam bar reduce while the weapon is jammed. Make jams a real pain in the rump.
      
    • Eliminate Ghost heat entirely from RAC weapons, but have the jam bar move faster when more RACs are firing. They are already hot enough and the jam mechanic is more punishing (you can’t coolant flush your way out of it).
      
      • Allow three RAC/2s to fire without jam penalty. This allows a 6 RAC/2 mech the ability to alternate their fire between two sets of jam bars and keep the fire rate up, while still putting respectable firepower out.
• Heavy Gauss
  
  • The weapon is a massive investment of space and tonnage each round is also a major tonnage investment. Your mech has to use a std engine (so heavier engine and go slow), then to get 25 shots you need 5 tons of ammo. So, the HG system will take up 18 slots and 25 tons with ammo plus the added weight from the std engine. So, putting this on an Atlas you can load on 3 ERPPC to have an *amazing* 55 point alpha (at 180 m).
    http://mwo.smurfy-ne...62d67de3f0410ca
    
    • Compare that to this also really hot KDK-3 that has a 90 point pinpoint alpha at 660m:
      http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5c5101c4b90b7b6
      
    • We don’t need to fear the range on this thing.
  • What should change:
    
    • It needs a respectable optimal range. At least 400m.
      
      • Max range can drop off quickly, but we need a reason to have it.
• Light Gauss
  
  • The updates helped a little, but it still is only a little bit smaller and lighter, while doing 7 less damage. It needs some relevance help.
    
  • What should change:
    
    • Increase the range to be the old 3x and increase velocity to 2500-2700.
      -OR-
      
    • Decrease the cooldown to 3.75

Edited by Cato Zilks, 30 June 2017 - 07:16 PM.

[Cato Zilks]

sorry for the odd spacing. The forum editor keeps going wonky

[Gentleman Reaper]

Love your suggestions, good expectations of where the weapons should be while maintaining accuracy to lore. Just some thoughts:

SNPPC: I actually really like your range bracket. I was settling on 450-600 range, but apparently it's doing much better than I expected with the current range, so 375 meters might be a good sweet spot for the SNPPC to feel like a brawling weapon. I would also suggest increasing the velocity to 1500-1600 to highlight the impressive close-range accuracy the weapon had in lore.

LPPC: Bare in mind that the LPPCs are 3 tons, so 2 of them are one ton lighter than a normal PPC, given that I think the cooldown should remain the same as the PPC, the main use for LPPCs should be for outfitting on tonnage-deprived mechs.

MRMs: If PGI can't fix the issue with the staggered fire then I suggest MRMs fire 2 salvos (MRM10 fires 5x2, MRM40 fires 20x2).

HGauss: Lore states that it has quite the long drop-off, despite the short range it starts losing damage. An accurate range profile would be 360 meters optimal, with a max range of 1200 meters (same as the normal Gauss), although how balanced it would be at that range is difficult to predict.

LGauss: Cooldown is already 3.75, I assume you mean something like 3.25? The velocity increase to 2200m/s in today's patch is well needed, although I think 2300m/s would be perfect, with maybe a 3 second cooldown.

[Y E O N N E]

What purpose do you want the Snub-Nose to serve? That's the question you should be asking yourself. The way PGI has set it up, it's got a brawling role with some range flexibility, it's just too hot and slow in that role. Yours is still mostly a brawling weapon due to that hard cap on the range and an optimum that's low enough for brawlers to get in and wreck you anyway. And for that, it's still too hot.

[Cato Zilks]

Yeonne Greene, on 30 June 2017 - 07:24 PM, said:

What purpose do you want the Snub-Nose to serve? That's the question you should be asking yourself. The way PGI has set it up, it's got a brawling role with some range flexibility, it's just too hot and slow in that role. Yours is still mostly a brawling weapon due to that hard cap on the range and an optimum that's low enough for brawlers to get in and wreck you anyway. And for that, it's still too hot.

Dropping down a bit further on heat would be nice, but it is would need other sacrifices at that point, like maybe a 8-pinpoint with 2 splash.

[Scifi Toughguy]

The RAC 2s as currently constituted feel like a joke. They have the same damage output as a light machine gun.

[Y E O N N E]

Cato Zilks, on 30 June 2017 - 07:35 PM, said:

Dropping down a bit further on heat would be nice, but it is would need other sacrifices at that point, like maybe a 8-pinpoint with 2 splash.

Why would it need more sacrifices at that point? Maybe yours would, but PGI's would not seeing as it's a 270 meter weapon.

[Cato Zilks]

Yeonne Greene, on 30 June 2017 - 07:50 PM, said:

Why would it need more sacrifices at that point? Maybe yours would, but PGI's would not seeing as it's a 270 meter weapon.

agreed

[Gentleman Reaper]

Yeonne Greene, on 30 June 2017 - 07:24 PM, said:

What purpose do you want the Snub-Nose to serve? That's the question you should be asking yourself. The way PGI has set it up, it's got a brawling role with some range flexibility, it's just too hot and slow in that role. Yours is still mostly a brawling weapon due to that hard cap on the range and an optimum that's low enough for brawlers to get in and wreck you anyway. And for that, it's still too hot.

I would agree with a heat and DPS buff, but I think you're overlooking how well it's doing with the 270m optimal already, I mean it's not perfect, but I was skeptical with the limited range too until people have been giving it praise.

[Y E O N N E]

Gentleman Reaper, on 30 June 2017 - 07:58 PM, said:

I would agree with a heat and DPS buff, but I think you're overlooking how well it's doing with the 270m optimal already, I mean it's not perfect, but I was skeptical with the limited range too until people have been giving it praise.

Where are you getting the info saying it's doing so well at 270? It is insanely easy to push on by anything else; I could brawl with a trio of standard Large lasers and perform more consistently.

The SN-PPC feels nice right now, but the heat it builds and the DPS it lacks are insidiously hidden.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 30 June 2017 - 08:12 PM.

[Cato Zilks]

Gentleman Reaper, on 30 June 2017 - 07:58 PM, said:

I would agree with a heat and DPS buff, but I think you're overlooking how well it's doing with the 270m optimal already, I mean it's not perfect, but I was skeptical with the limited range too until people have been giving it praise.

Yeah they praise it because it is the least crappy new PPC. Not the same as good.