255 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

May I request that we please cease opening posts using the word "except"?

It is indeed possible to have some degree of eloquence when you post.

[Khobai]

Quote

May I request that we please cease opening posts using the word "except"?

It is indeed possible to have some degree of eloquence when you post.

That is the dumbest thing ive ever heard. If youre looking for eloquence you should not be on the MWO message boards. ahahahaha.

And truthfully youre not going to find "eloquence" on any forum really. That request is so hilariously unreasonable it literally made me laugh out loud.

So yeah back to having an actual discussion about SRMs/ATMs instead of trying to be the word police telling people what words they can or cant use...

Edited by Khobai, 09 July 2017 - 02:34 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 09 July 2017 - 02:30 PM, said:

That is the dumbest thing ive ever heard. If youre looking for eloquence you should not be on the MWO message boards. ahahahaha.

And truthfully youre not going to find "eloquence" on any forum really. That request is so hilariously unreasonable it literally made me laugh out loud.

So yeah back to having an actual discussion about SRMs/ATMs instead of trying to be the word police telling people what words they can or cant use...

I mean, if you want to continue beginning every statement sounding like a condescending nitwit while, simultaneously, speaking from positions of ignorance and assuming everybody can know every little change you have in mind for the game while making a statement limited to the immediate topic, be my guest. But it does not empower your position to stay that course.

Effective communication skills are hard.

[Kin3ticX]

KevinZhang, on 29 June 2017 - 11:39 AM, said:

I didn't follow along with every release but only recently looked over the notes for the PTS and what is coming to MWO with the Civil War tech. I'm not sure if it is just me but doesn't it seem really skewed towards IS mechs with this release? A majority of the weapons and tech seem to be IS only (especially the bigger stuff like rotary AC, STEALTH ARMOR, rokkit launchas, etc) while clans only get some micro-lasers and whatnot. I know people complain that clan is too strong but is swinging the pendulum hard towards the IS side really the right fix for balance?

Lol it doesnt get any better than this folks

Welcome to MWO forums

[Khobai]

Quote

I mean, if you want to continue beginning every statement sounding like a condescending nitwit while, simultaneously, speaking from positions of ignorance and assuming everybody can know every little change you have in mind for the game while making a statement limited to the immediate topic, be my guest. But it does not empower your position to stay that course.

Effective communication skills are hard.

Except youre the one being a condescending nitwit? There was no petty name calling in this thread until you started it lol. Youre the one disrespecting other people.

And there are no "positions of ignorance". There is simply my opinion and your opinion. I may not agree with your opinion but I dont resort to personal attacks when people dont agree with me. Im above that.

The problem is you cant accept that someone might have an opinion that differs from yours. Because you always have to be right no matter what. You cant simply agree to disagree and leave it at that. Just let it go bro. I dont take anything I read on these forums seriously. Neither should you.

Quote

I didn't follow along with every release but only recently looked over the notes for the PTS and what is coming to MWO with the Civil War tech. I'm not sure if it is just me but doesn't it seem really skewed towards IS mechs with this release? A majority of the weapons and tech seem to be IS only (especially the bigger stuff like rotary AC, STEALTH ARMOR, rokkit launchas, etc) while clans only get some micro-lasers and whatnot. I know people complain that clan is too strong but is swinging the pendulum hard towards the IS side really the right fix for balance?

Quote

Lol it doesnt get any better than this folks

Welcome to MWO forums

Exactly. There is no eloquence to be found here. I rest my case.

Edited by Khobai, 09 July 2017 - 03:17 PM.

[Zergling]

Look at a basic Clan LRM boat in TT; 2x LRM20 with 4 tons of ammo total, 4x ER Medium Lasers. The weapons and ammo weigh in at 18 tons and generate 32 heat, requiring at least 6 more double heatsinks than base 10 to avoid overheating when firing everything, for a total tonnage of 24 tons.

Damage at 16 to 21 hexes = 24
Damage at 15 hexes and less = 52


Or to a mixed LRM and SRM loadout; 2x LRM20 with 4 tons of ammo total, 3x SRM6 with 3 tons of ammo total.
This weighs 21.5 tons and generates 24 heat, requiring 2 additional headsinks bringing the tonnage up to 23.5 tons.

Damage at 10 to 21 hexes = 24
Damage at 9 hexes and less = 48


Now compare to an ATM only loadout; 5x ATM6 with 6 tons of ammo total, which is 23.5 tons in weight, generating 20 heat (so no need for more heatsinks).

Damage at 16-27 hexes = 25
Damage at 10-15 hexes = 50
Damage at 9 hexes and less = 75


End result: ATM loadout is superior to mixed loudouts, and this is how it should have been in MWO.

Edited by Zergling, 09 July 2017 - 03:15 PM.

[Kin3ticX]

Zergling, on 09 July 2017 - 03:14 PM, said:

Look at a basic Clan LRM boat in TT; 2x LRM20 with 4 tons of ammo total, 4x ER Medium Lasers. The weapons and ammo weigh in at 18 tons and generate 32 heat, requiring at least 6 more double heatsinks than base 10 to avoid overheating when firing everything, for a total tonnage of 24 tons.

Damage at 16 to 21 hexes = 24
Damage at 15 hexes and less = 52


Or to a mixed LRM and SRM loadout; 2x LRM20 with 4 tons of ammo total, 3x SRM6 with 3 tons of ammo total.
This weighs 21.5 tons and generates 24 heat, requiring 2 additional headsinks bringing the tonnage up to 23.5 tons.

Damage at 10 to 21 hexes = 24
Damage at 9 hexes and less = 48


Now compare to an ATM only loadout; 5x ATM6 with 6 tons of ammo total, which is 23.5 tons in weight, generating 20 heat (so no need for more heatsinks).

Damage at 16-27 hexes = 25
Damage at 10-15 hexes = 50
Damage at 9 hexes and less = 75


End result: ATM loadout is superior to mixed loudouts, and this is how it should have been in MWO.

wow awesome, TT rules, that means everything in an arcade shooter (it doesn't)....

Since ATM is a multirole weapon it has to be both weaker than streaks and LRMs else there is no point to Streaks or LRMs anymore.

[Zergling]

Kin3ticX, on 09 July 2017 - 03:25 PM, said:

wow awesome, TT rules, that means everything in an arcade shooter (it doesn't)....

Since ATM is a multirole weapon it has to be both weaker than streaks and LRMs else there is no point to Streaks or LRMs anymore.

TT shows what the strengths of ATMs should be.

And you don't need to tell me about the problems facing ATMs in MWO; I've been explaining them for pages now.

[HIGH LORD KIT FAWKS THE WATCHFUL]

Yikes what did I just walk into... Is there any possibility that we should be approaching this from the perspective of how to tactically apply this new weapon system within the current environment?

SRMs are short range, unguided, hard hitting.

STREAKs are short range, guided, less damage.

MRMs are?

ATMs are?

LRMs are long range, slower, guided, attrition damage.

How do we approach this...?

Edited by THE GOD KING URBIE LORD OF MECHS, 09 July 2017 - 04:20 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

The honest hosement here is PGI decided to give ATMs the exact same mechanics as a Streak launcher.

In TT, a Streak rack would automatically hit with every missile, while the odds on an ATM doing so were considerably smaller.

Here, they both end up equally accurate up close, only ATMs get more damage for the weight (A SSRM 4 is 8 damage for 1.5 tons, while an ATM-3 is 1.5 tons for 9 damage). If they could just turn off guidance inside 270m, it'd make them compare to a slower (currently ridiculously so) standard SRM rack instead- and an SRM 6 for 1.5 tons deals more damage than an ATM 3 (and as you get into bigger launchers, it's notably worse tonnagewise).

If PGI could have a 270m "minimum" that prevented lock-on, that might actually do the trick. It's the combination of guidance and high damage per missile that gives them the comparison to Streaks- take the guidance out up close and they're now compared to the much more tonnage efficient standard Clan SRM.

Bonus: If you can make "dumbfire" mode have a spread higher than guided mode, you're able to tweak it's medium and long range capacity separate from it's short.

Edited by Brain Cancer, 09 July 2017 - 06:30 PM.

[Zergling]

Brain Cancer, on 09 July 2017 - 06:29 PM, said:

The honest hosement here is PGI decided to give ATMs the exact same mechanics as a Streak launcher.

In TT, a Streak rack would automatically hit with every missile, while the odds on an ATM doing so were considerably smaller.

Here, they both end up equally accurate up close, only ATMs get more damage for the weight (A SSRM 4 is 8 damage for 1.5 tons, while an ATM-3 is 1.5 tons for 9 damage). If they could just turn off guidance inside 270m, it'd make them compare to a slower (currently ridiculously so) standard SRM rack instead- and an SRM 6 for 1.5 tons deals more damage than an ATM 3 (and as you get into bigger launchers, it's notably worse tonnagewise).

If PGI could have a 270m "minimum" that prevented lock-on, that might actually do the trick. It's the combination of guidance and high damage per missile that gives them the comparison to Streaks- take the guidance out up close and they're now compared to the much more tonnage efficient standard Clan SRM.

Bonus: If you can make "dumbfire" mode have a spread higher than guided mode, you're able to tweak it's medium and long range capacity separate from it's short.

Yep, I'd like to see some sort of 'out of the box' solution like you are proposing.

[Brain Cancer]

I mean, the game can clearly detect "X target is too close, zero/reduce damage!", and has the ECM no-lock effect within a radius of an ECM carrier.

Combine parts of the two. If locked target is within X meters, turn off lock-on systems and ATM reverts to dumbfire mode.

The only flaw is that PGI cannot into disabling one lock-on and not the other, which with our luck means you can't turn off one without the other missile systems failing. Same thing in reverse is why Streak benefits from Artemis for "free".

[J0anna]

Arguing about ATMs before they are released is just a waste of time. PGI doesn't read these forums or care what we think, they have made that abundantly clear. There is one sure way to get PGI to fix ATMs - don't use them. I tried them on the PTS, and they just aren't worth it.

1) PGI made the Clan LRM's stream fire since they have no minimum range. Well ATM's have the worst of both, they have a minimum range AND they stream fire. One of the two should be removed.

2) Low missile health means one or more AMS makes you invulnerable to ATM's (at least the smaller launchers). The individual missiles need more health.

3) They are effectively low speed, direct fire missiles. Break LOS and they will miss, for faster lights, you can out turn them and make them all miss, not to mention you can almost get inside minimum range if they at fired at you in their maximum damage window. They need to move much faster. and have a bigger max damage window.

Yes they can hit hard, and yes they do seem to like the CT, but the negatives far outweigh the positives. PGI could have made them the clan equivalent of MRM's, but that's too late. For something that weighs as much as they do, they need to be the primary weapon system on a mech. If you make them your primary weapon system, expect to have many bad games. If very few people use them, and those that do have low damage games, they will get buffed (like pulse lasers did), might take a year or two, but it's happened before....

[Weeny Machine]

ATMs need to be balanced careful else they will be light mech killers like streaks because of the lock mechanic.

Oh wait...PGI will like that because kicking lights in the balls seem to be their favourite passtime

Edited by Bush Hopper, 10 July 2017 - 07:54 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

J0anna, on 10 July 2017 - 04:26 AM, said:

1) PGI made the Clan LRM's stream fire since they have no minimum range. Well ATM's have the worst of both, they have a minimum range AND they stream fire. One of the two should be removed.

Well, no not really. They made C-LRMs stream fire because they weigh 50% of what IS LRMs do. That exponential damage scaling means C-LRMs at 120m are doing next to zero damage, the only practical difference is you can cause screen shake with them.

(as a side note, ALL weapons with a minimum range need to have falloff to 0, either exponential or linear, because doing full damage at 90/120/180m and then doing 0 dmg at 89/119/179 is totally dumb)

edit: i do support ATM minimum range being removed, but im hesitant to argue for it because i know im biased - i hate using SRM builds because i dont have the patience and always end up overextending, and id like ATMs to be good brawling weapons so i can play brawler mechs and not hate them.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 10 July 2017 - 08:32 AM.

[davoodoo]

Best tech is gets in 3062 are things which clans had for ages, like ultra autocannons, er lasers and 2 st crit engines.

Rest of the new tech is either DOA or very niche weapons which will be used on few mechs

Edited by davoodoo, 10 July 2017 - 08:47 AM.