65 replies to this topic

[Kaptain]

Does the 2n have 4x20tube hardpoints? Because if it doesn't that completely invalidates this test.

[MischiefSC]

Bushies and Griffins don't have tube limits. Just tested.

Yes, a Bushie can destroy a couple of mediums with RLs and have a single LPL for backup.

It's not 'are RLs viable compared to everything else'. It's 'what is gameplay with RLs going to look like'.

It's going to be suicide bombing and that's **** game experience. As a fundamental concept it's bad.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Kaptain, on 29 June 2017 - 02:53 PM, said:

Does the 2n have 4x20tube hardpoints? Because if it doesn't that completely invalidates this test.

It doesn't according to Smurfy, it is 20/10 per side torso. The Bushi doesn't have limits however on the side torsos (the arm is 20/15).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 29 June 2017 - 03:09 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

FireStoat, on 29 June 2017 - 02:30 PM, said:

Okay, fine. You caught me. I hadn't actually used them yet - I was going off of B33f's livestream that I was watching.
So, I hopped into the PTS just now to see for myself what was up. On Canyon Network there's a Centurion very close to your spawn point. He's a 50 ton IS mech that's pretty durable, and my concern was with Scouting mode so... he's a perfect test subject.

I walked onto the nearby railroad track bridge to get at a comfortable 100 meters for my shooting. Bushwacker pilots in Scouting can get into this position all day long. The first two racks fired dead center at range 100 are shown in the second image, and the 3rd rack used on its own finished the mech, barely. I think I got lucky with an ammo explosion - I did NOT expect the third rack to take it out. Either way, without luck, a 4th rack would have done it for certain OR the casual use of my energy weapons.
If the weapons are to remain in the game without change, then Clan better be able to get ahold of them. If not, kiss Scouting mode goodbye.

https://imgur.com/a/OJRz0

Two issues real players move and training ground mechs don't have full armor or skills on armor.
Do some pts games and see how it works out for you. I did a lot of 1v1 I found them worth taking but not op.

I want to see some videos of RLS killing two mechs with a bushwhacker. I can kill an assault from behind with a Jenner2c with two hits.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 29 June 2017 - 03:16 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 29 June 2017 - 03:09 PM, said:

It doesn't according to Smurfy, it is 20/10 per side torso. The Bushi doesn't have limits however on the side torsos (the arm is 20/15).

Just tested it on the PTS. At least on the image in the mech lab they show all the missiles.

[Ced Riggs]

You can run a RAC5 with plenty ammo, LPPC and 6 RL20 comfortably on a Bushie. And the player-specced Centurion I just deleted in a live match on the PTS agrees that RL20 are awesome and totally what Scouting needs.

[Scout Derek]

Cato Zilks, on 29 June 2017 - 02:20 PM, said:

Ok, for you knuckleheads who think that this is going to be an issue, look at the before and after. This is one alpha:



This was against a stationary target with two SNPPC firing as well. Rockets will not break the game.

That's an atlas.....

Not a ******* medium. Of course 4 Rocket Launchers wont kill an atlas. Plus, that was a failed test... you're too far away.

THIS. Is what I'm scared of:





If all missiles had hit, this SOB would be DEAD. Not to Mention, I only used 6 ROCKET LAUNCHERS. SIX, TO YOUR FOUR, THAT DIDN'T HIT HIM ALL THE WAY.

Wanna See the health of this bad boy?




Yeah. That's a lot of ******* damage man. And it didn't even do all the damage it should because of hit reg.

I'll be testing this in a Griffin, the Same one you used in a bit here too.

Edited by Scout Derek, 29 June 2017 - 03:41 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

Ced Riggs, on 29 June 2017 - 03:15 PM, said:

You can run a RAC5 with plenty ammo, LPPC and 6 RL20 comfortably on a Bushie. And the player-specced Centurion I just deleted in a live match on the PTS agrees that RL20 are awesome and totally what Scouting needs.

So if people started running these like crazy you pick a fast medium going over 100kph(clans have a number) and you keep range.

[Guile Votoms]

You can oneshot an Atlas in the rear CT with a Javelin carrying 6 RL20s.

However ... I tried it against players and I wasn't able to get a good shot on anyone lighter than an assault.
You still rip off most of what you shoot at, but they're too unreliable to be considered a viable main weapon.

And yes, you can put 6 20s on a Bushwacker and still carry a RAC5 or LBX10, but SRMs are still vastly preferable.

One or two Rocket Launchers are nice if you have some tonnage left, but nothing more.

Scouting is a different matter of course and just makes the mode's flaws so much more apparent.
I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to ban Rocket Launchers from scouting entirely.

[Guile Votoms]

[Monkey Lover]

Scout Derek, on 29 June 2017 - 03:19 PM, said:

That's an atlas.....

Not a ******* medium. Of course 4 Rocket Launchers wont kill an atlas. Plus, that was a failed test... you're too far away.

THIS. Is what I'm scared of:





If all missiles had hit, this SOB would be DEAD. Not to Mention, I only used 5 ROCKET LAUNCHERS. FIVE TO YOUR FOUR, THAT DIDN'T HIT HIM ALL THE WAY.

Wanna See the health of this bad boy?




Yeah. That's a lot of ******* damage man. And it didn't even do all the damage it should because of hit reg.

I'll be testing this in a Griffin, the Same one you used in a bit here too.

This Atlas again doesn't have full armor or skills adding more armor. Saw someone not long ago post s video of machineguns killing this Atlas in a few seconds. Do real tests in the pts please.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 29 June 2017 - 03:49 PM.

[Scout Derek]

Monkey Lover, on 29 June 2017 - 03:43 PM, said:

This Atlas again doesn't have full armor or skills adding more armor. Saw someone not long ago post s video of machinery killing this Atlas in a few seconds. Do real tests in the pts please.

umm.....



It IS in the PTS. But I can go ahead and do an Actual test against a full armored Atlas if you want.

[Monkey Lover]

Scout Derek, on 29 June 2017 - 03:50 PM, said:

umm.....



It IS in the PTS. But I can go ahead and do an Actual test against a full armored Atlas if you want.

That's the testing ground. I don't need to do a test more, I ran lots of them. It's everyone here killing training ground mechs saying rockets are op.

[Ced Riggs]

Monkey Lover, on 29 June 2017 - 03:24 PM, said:

So if people started running these like crazy you pick a fast medium going over 100kph(clans have a number) and you keep range.

Local purple chicken suggests Clans run undergunned Vipers or Shadowcats in Scounting to counter 55ton insta-murder machines. As a surprise to absolutely no one, that idea is quite bad. Not that it would help if we could run Stormcrows against this memery, either - pops just the same. You could even fire two groups of 3 RL20 and just oneshot legs.

I get that people pick favourite internet teams, but these blatant "Clans can suck it" sentiments are getting old. Don't try to talk about balance if you have no interest in balance.

Monkey Lover, on 29 June 2017 - 03:54 PM, said:

It's everyone here killing training ground mechs saying rockets are op.

Ced Riggs, on 29 June 2017 - 03:15 PM, said:

And the player-specced Centurion I just deleted in a live match on the PTS agrees that RL20 are awesome and totally what Scouting needs.

I could add the memories of a Blackjack with 2 SNPPC and 4 RL20 doing the same to me later on. In two matches. Same guy, same build. I was running a specced Archer and a specced Warhammer.

Edited by Ced Riggs, 29 June 2017 - 03:59 PM.

[Arastoru]

if rocket launcher alpha is too strong, they can just limit amount of launchers you can fire in one volley like they did with gauss rifles. This should give target enough time to torso twist to not get killed right away.

[LordNothing]

a gauss like lockout of only being able to fire 2 at a time and lock out the others for 2 seconds would be an easy solution. you can still carry 8, but you wont be able to fire them all at once. if you fire them in chain fire like you are supposed to, no lockout.

[Scout Derek]

Arastoru, on 29 June 2017 - 03:59 PM, said:

if rocket launcher alpha is too strong, they can just limit amount of launchers you can fire in one volley like they did with gauss rifles. This should give target enough time to torso twist to not get killed right away.

This doesn't, however, mitigate the damage output that they give. If you can aim, you can land all your shots fairly easily.

Interesting suggestion however.

Arastoru, on 29 June 2017 - 03:59 PM, said:

if rocket launcher alpha is too strong, they can just limit amount of launchers you can fire in one volley like they did with gauss rifles. This should give target enough time to torso twist to not get killed right away.

LordNothing, on 29 June 2017 - 04:00 PM, said:

a gauss like lockout of only being able to fire 2 at a time and lock out the others for 2 seconds would be an easy solution. you can still carry 8, but you wont be able to fire them all at once. if you fire them in chain fire like you are supposed to, no lockout.

Is this your alternate posting account

Edited by Scout Derek, 29 June 2017 - 04:01 PM.

[ShaneoftheDead]

Removal is a bit extreme. This is a Test Server after all. I suggest some minor modifications.

If PGI makes a weapon system, someone will boat it. Guaranteed.

One possible solution may be to give it a minimum range, say 80m, and then increase the rocket spread to the point where it is impossible to focus all the rockets in one place. So if you had 8 RL20s you would only reliably land 20 or so in a given torso if it is large enough.

Or perhaps have the rockets fire one at a time and roll around as they go out so you are merely giving them a general direction rather than aiming at one spot. (one funny thing PGI could do here is to roll some dice to see how many "hit" and the rockets that do not "hit" wander off way to the side or some crazy direction hitting who knows what.)

Or perhaps rockets have a wide, flat spread making them an AoE weapon. Anti-Death-ball possibilities?

[Scout Derek]

ShaneoftheDead, on 29 June 2017 - 04:08 PM, said:

Removal is a bit extreme. This is a Test Server after all. I suggest some minor modifications.

If PGI makes a weapon system, someone will boat it. Guaranteed.

One possible solution may be to give it a minimum range, say 80m, and then increase the rocket spread to the point where it is impossible to focus all the rockets in one place. So if you had 8 RL20s you would only reliably land 20 or so in a given torso if it is large enough.

Or perhaps have the rockets fire one at a time and roll around as they go out so you are merely giving them a general direction rather than aiming at one spot. (one funny thing PGI could do here is to roll some dice to see how many "hit" and the rockets that do not "hit" wander off way to the side or some crazy direction hitting who knows what.)

Or perhaps rockets have a wide, flat spread making them an AoE weapon. Anti-Death-ball possibilities?

I'm not asking to remove them, to limit them.

[Scout Derek]

MischiefSC, on 29 June 2017 - 03:01 PM, said:

Bushies and Griffins don't have tube limits. Just tested.

Yes, a Bushie can destroy a couple of mediums with RLs and have a single LPL for backup.

It's not 'are RLs viable compared to everything else'. It's 'what is gameplay with RLs going to look like'.

It's going to be suicide bombing and that's **** game experience. As a fundamental concept it's bad.

Just did a test with the cyclops with the same amount of rocket launchers, it's bugged. I did more damage with the cyclops than I did with the griffin. See for yourself.

Monkey Lover,

Here's the Atlas I tested with with a friend's help







Now here's the result. I did 188 damage with Rocket Launcher 20x6. That means hit reg did a full no damage with one rocket launcher.