11 replies to this topic

[NyxSilence]

This update isn't ready period. In particular the MRMs are busted to a point of no return. This below is but a taste of what is currently wrong with this. At no point should I be able to fire these in quick succession and ONE SHOT A KODIAK. THIS ISNT OKAY EVER. It isn't okay that when fired they just murder mediums out of existance. This one shot and urbanmech midway through 80 mrms on chainfire. No. This needs to be hard capped at Max 100 because no one can survive this.

[LordNothing]

i wish they were as good in game as they are in the testing grounds. one hit a heavy testing grounds, check. one hit a firestarter that shut down in front of me, nope. two hit? nope. having it start up as you are shutting down and backshat you. yep.

Edited by LordNothing, 29 June 2017 - 10:53 PM.

[davoodoo]

1st you wont oneshot a kodiak with those, in mwo you would need at least 12 more launchers to do it semi reliably...

2nd on tt you have half the armor we have in mwo and despite that 90 dmg is heat neutral alpha for tech level 2 assault mech.
Also kgc fluff
"Designed by Cosara Weaponries in 2741 at the request of General Aleksandr Kerensky for an assault 'Mech that could "cripple or destroy another 'Mech in one salvo," the King Crab is one of the most fearsome BattleMechs to have ever existed."
despite tech level 1 it could fire both ac20 heat neutral for 40 dmg alpha outright stripping frontal ct armor of anything lighter than 75 tons and outright destroying mechs lighter than 50 tons if both shells hit ct.
Even kgc itself would lose ct armor if hit by those in its stock configuration.

Edited by davoodoo, 30 June 2017 - 01:57 AM.

[P10k56]

Only thing Kodiak needs it to backpedal this Stalker barely moves

[LordNothing]

P10k56, on 30 June 2017 - 03:14 AM, said:

Only thing Kodiak needs it to backpedal this Stalker barely moves

its one of those 'just because you can doesn't mean you should' things.

[o0cipher0o]

You're trolling right? Tell me you're trolling, please.

Right now MRMs are just barely viable, and definitely not particularly good weapons, let alone OP.
Did you even bother dropping in an actual match and try that abomination of a stalker you came up with?

[davoodoo]

Ok i made something more viable than op(still way too hot) but op stalker would shut down before firing 4th mrm40...

cp 10 q
4x mrm30 1x mrm10
275 light
7 tons of ammo.

Went into testing grounds forest colony, put myself at 400m to cicada front and started firing mrms 30
180, missiles before i destroyed it at that range aiming at ct.
210 at 200m firing at commando.

I mean ****, one shotting a kodiak when 160 missiles cant oneshot a commando or cicada?

Ok but lets try something which i consider actually viable.
cplt a1 with 6xmrm10 and 275 light, frozen city 300m atlas front.
450 missiles to kill.
You would need 12 mrm40 to hope to oneshot stationary kodiak.

Edited by davoodoo, 30 June 2017 - 05:24 AM.

[Duvanor]

MRMs need at least a slight reduction in spread. They seem to be kinda okay, but considering their heat and the delivered damage, they feel not quite right at this stage.

[davoodoo]

Duvanor, on 30 June 2017 - 05:21 AM, said:

MRMs need at least a slight reduction in spread. They seem to be kinda okay, but considering their heat and the delivered damage, they feel not quite right at this stage.

What delivered damage?

you need to fire ~200 dmg worth of missiles to kill stationary cicada aiming at its ct.

atm mrms are only barely more viable than ac2.

Edited by davoodoo, 30 June 2017 - 05:25 AM.

[Ruar]

davoodoo, on 30 June 2017 - 05:24 AM, said:

What delivered damage?

you need to fire ~200 dmg worth of missiles to kill stationary cicada aiming at its ct.

atm mrms are only barely more viable than ac2.

I think of MRMs as a support weapon instead of being primary. I wouldn't think of boating them though because they don't seem to be designed for that kind of use.

However, even as a support weapon right now they are really bad. Throwing a couple of 10 or 20 racks to fill in a few empty missile slots is not as viable as using SRMs and just waiting for the range to close. Instead of using MRMs just add a few more heatsinks, switch to ERML, and have better medium range damage with SRMs to deal with in close targets.

[Orkimedes]

MRMs as primary weapon (although hilarious) is far from OP. The vector for ALL the missiles is determined when you first fire, so you can twist your aim all you want you won't get a flexing stream so they're going to quite ineffective against moving targets. however, there are some niche uses where they could be strong: confined spaces (e.g. streets, tunnels ,what have you) where your target can't do lateral movement to force misses on your volley, and short-(ish-)range brawling. Of course when it comes to brawling they have to content with the SRMs, and I think the MRM launchers in general should be compared to multiple SRM6+A launchers.
for example, my classic brawler atlas has two options for each of the two main weapon systems (add lasers to taste):

For context, the big ballistic options:

• AC/20: good old 20pt damage to single spot
  
• UAC/20: more damage spread, but double tapping puts on the hurt. jams in a brawl do kinda suck though.
  
• LB20X is comparatively useless since you can't really work around the 11 slots unless you're really insistent on a standard engine

The main menu:

4xSRM6+artemis vs 2xMRM30

• ghost heat: not there, as basically required in any brawling setup.
  
• spread: both weapons spread considerably, even at brawling ranges, but MRMs spread more.
  
• range: unlike the AC/20, the srms can't reach out and touch people beyond their indicated range. Skills can alleviate this, but it remains a key weakness on srms, doubly so on slow mechs. The ability of MRMs to give someone a good sandblasting while you close in is one of the main selling points of MRMs.
  
• raw alpha: 51.6 on the srms vs 60 on the MRMs. This gives a slight edge to mrms over srms when engaging assaults.
  
• heat: the mrms generate 4 more heat per volley. That's 25% more heat than the srms. oof.
  
• tonnage: weighing in at 20 tonnes, dual MRM30 is 4 tonnes heavier than quad srm6+A.
  
• slots: dual MRM30s take up two less slots. If all your missile hardpoints are in 1 side torso like on an atlas, this means you have 2 slots left in that torso, which means being able to mount a light fusion engine. Pretty big deal. This means raw dps is slightly lower on the dual mrm30s and, more annoyingly, that they don't quite sync up with the recycle on the (u)AC/20.
  
• torso twisting: both srms and mrms allow for a click followed by an immediate twist.
  
• hard points: not every mech has the luxury of 4+ missile hardpoints. Fair amount of mechs have 2 though.

Overall I think it's fairly evenly balanced. The MRM has some clear selling points that expand it's niche while being sub-optimal in the SRM's very own niche. I for one won't cry if people would replace their LRM launchers with MRM launchers.


edits: stuff I forgot/messed up when first posting

Edited by Orkimedes, 30 June 2017 - 08:48 AM.

[Hal Greaves]

NyxSilence, on 29 June 2017 - 09:04 PM, said:

This update isn't ready period. In particular the MRMs are busted to a point of no return. This below is but a taste of what is currently wrong with this. At no point should I be able to fire these in quick succession and ONE SHOT A KODIAK. THIS ISNT OKAY EVER. It isn't okay that when fired they just murder mediums out of existance. This one shot and urbanmech midway through 80 mrms on chainfire. No. This needs to be hard capped at Max 100 because no one can survive this.

At 30KPH that thing is a beached whale. That whole entire build is balanced around the fact that you actually have to get somewhere to use it, and when you can't even move faster than some mechs can run backwards you have an issue, because that thing is going to be a flaming ball of fire before it gets anywhere near a kodiak in a 12v12.

theoretical builds != practical, useful builds when you make a drop.