9 replies to this topic

[Bad Pun]

So far I've focused on two weapons, the two I was most interested in and expected to use most often. I was quite disappointed with their first impression.

Let's start with the more positive of my opinions, ATMs. They're rather unimpressive.

As it currently stands, it's an LRM that doesn't get enough ammo per ton. It can potentially get 216 per, making for the highest potential each ton, but that's only if each of its shots are made within a narrow band between losing a third of that damage or all of it. In practical terms, that damage is more like 144 with an occasional bonus, making it the worst. Ammunition should really be raised to 90.

The minimum range is rather restrictive, being a 180 meter dead zone. cLRMs have reduced damage within that range, not simply zero, and SRMs abound within it. This makes it the only clan missile system that's completely ineffective within that range. I'm not opposed to a minimum range to differentiate it from SRMs or SSRMs, but 90 meters seems much more sensible.

The last point is velocity and spread. Matching the speed of LRMs is rather odd, since it is supposed to be a much more direct missile and spreading as much to boot is inconsistent with the idea that it is hard-wired with an Artemis System. A velocity bump to 240-260 m/s seems much more realistic, as vertical cover is much more an issue, though 200 would in itself be very welcome. Spread shouldn't be much more, if at all more, than equivalent LRMs with Artemis.

The potential flexibility available to ATMs makes it a possible primary weapon for missile-heavy clan mechs, if one of modest efficacy. Reducing the minimum range, increasing velocity and allotting more ammunition per ton would bring this weapon up in line where it belongs. Failure to do this will leave this as a poor choice, as it needs to be a fair competitor to both short and long range missiles, or else it won't be viable.



With the positive out of the way, next is an observation that leaves me without anything nice to say about it.

Rac-2s are terrible. This isn't a matter of them not being a good option, they are objectively worse than their counterparts.

But before I delve into that, I have to bring up the awful clattery-clanky noise they make while the barrels are spinning. Why do they sound like a drawbridge or portcullis being raised in some action-adventure game? Am I storming Ganon's Castle here?! Get rid of that noise please, it drives me crazy.

So, into the numbers. There's no reason to use these, since a standard AC2 with around -30% cooldown from quirks and skill nodes will put out the same 4 damage a second (3.968 by my math). That's without spin-up, without jams, for less tonnage, less heat, at longer range and more accuracy.

So, why would I bother with this? Because it's cool? Not even then for me with the clatter-clank. It would need to have the ridiculous spinup removed and that noise done away with first. Even then it would need some more help, as it would be a short range AC2 that can jam, while dealing no extra damage but weighs more.

More on the spinup. It's a literal waste of time. As evidenced by nearly every other option having immediate results or something worth the wait like Gauss, it's out of place. There's no way to use this as a reaction to someone peeking a corner unless you already know that they are there, and front loaded damage is going to be better anyway. The jam bar increases during this time as well, and it can be filled without firing a single shot, so trying to keep the barrels warm is counterproductive. Using it against an open target isn't much better, as comparable options are just vastly superior.

The spinup and low damage for the cost keep them from being useful. Since they have such a clumsy jam mechanic, they can't sustain fire like AC-2s, but they also can't burst since a UAC-2 has already put out 6 damage by the time an RAC-2 has even spooled up, even without quirks or skills. They have no place.

To get this weapon up to par, it needs the spinup removed, damage per second increased to about 6 (possibly by simply increasing rate of fire) and for my own sake, the clatter-clunk done away with.

[Codpond]

Good read, I agree on all accounts.

[Bad Pun]

Oh, my numbers are already outdated it seems. RAC-2s show 5.6 DPS in the mechlab now. Good start, but all my other issues are still there.

Edit: ATMs have less minimum! 120 is tolerable, but I'd still prefer 90.

Edited by Bad Pun, 30 June 2017 - 01:12 PM.

[MechWarrior414712]

I don't think 5.6 dps is still enough considering rac5 is almost 10 dps while only being 2 tons heavier.

EDIT: Just got to know they also buffed RAC5, which bumped their dps to over 10dps? so even more pointless to use rac2

Edited by I O O percent KongLord, 30 June 2017 - 02:53 PM.

[Shiin]

None of this accounts for the face-time penalty as well. I can peek or shield with AC and UAC, but I must maintain face-time with an RAC. That means I cannot spread damage. The weapon should be worth the risk of being cored so quickly.

[Linkin]

Good write up. I'm not good at discussing numbers, so I'll just comment on the noise. I was expecting more of the 'hum/buzz' you hear from modern mini-guns. I suppose it would need to have a ridiculous rof to get that, but that is what I was hoping for.

Instead of my mech being Arnold Schwarzenegger Mac in the jungle, it is an old western dude on a horse drawn cart cranking away on one of the first Gatling guns...

I can live with the current noise, but something smoother would be nice.

Edit- character name correction

Edited by Linkin, 30 June 2017 - 04:46 PM.

[Bad Pun]

Ah, lots of good points here. The DPS does still need a buff. I think 6 is just getting into a decent amount, but more would be great. I haven't crunched the numbers for an RAC-5 comparison yet, but it is now showing 10.8 DPS.

Giving face time is also an important consideration. Removing the spool up should help with twisting, since you won't have to waste time after spreading some damage. As a DPS weapon, I'll have to try to avoid the temptation to stare even if it's fixed.

[Linkin]

So they changed the values with an update a short while ago, I think damage wise they are in a better spot now. Main performance issue IMHO is the jam bar filling while the gun is spinning up and not firing.

https://mwomercs.com...riday-june-30th

edit- link.

Edited by Linkin, 30 June 2017 - 08:45 PM.

[Bad Pun]

Yep, the damage output is definitely better. I still hold the opinion that 6 DPS is where it should be and not have a spinup at all, or at least miniscule. The jam bar filling without a shot fired, maybe that's to prevent silliness with macros?

[DaManBearPig]

The Atms definitely need more love for sure PGI
They should have more ammo per ton and a smaller minimum range