11 replies to this topic

[Navid A1]

I was doing some extensive testing of the new weapons, and checking the game .xml files yesterday, and here is my final verdict and suggestions. Feel free to discuss.

Alright... directly to the point.


Inner sphere weapons:

Gauss Rifles:

Spoiler

Light and Heavy Gauss rifles
Interesting additions. Could have been implemented better

Pros:

• Heavy gauss has some serious punch up close. Ability to charge 2 at a time is a welcome move.

Cons:

• Light, regular, and heavy gauss each has different charge-up times. This is particularly annoying considering the fact that many players use muscle memory to operate gauss charge
  
• Light gauss stats are very underwhelming. It has no advantage other than weight compared to a normal gauss rifle for a weapon that is only 3 tons lighter but loses half the damage
  
• Heavy gauss reticle and cockpit shake at the same time is excessive
  
• Damage drop off for heavy gauss could be implemented better with the new segmented format in the stats file

What can be done:

• Make all three gauss weapons to have same charge-up times
  
• Reduce cooldown of the light gauss to 3.5 - 4 seconds. It doesn’t make sense why it has the same cooldown as a normal gauss
  
• Light gauss charge up removal would also be welcome
  
• Significantly increase L gauss range. 1000 meter optimum is a good place to start (anything less than 1K can’t be justified against regular gauss), as depicted here:

• Either keep the cockpit shake OR reticle shake for the heavy gauss. If the goal is to reduce alpha potential with other back up weapons, then only the reticle shake is needed.
  
• Better implement heavy gauss damage drop off now with the newly coded segmented range/damage structure. Below is my suggestion:

Comments:

When you think about heavy gauss, also think about a weapon that is 18 tons and by nature won't allow you to have weight saving benefits from LFE or XL engines. This way you will think rationally

Rotary ACs:

Spoiler

Rotary AC2 and AC5
A weapon only for the coolness factor, situational at best

Pros:

• Can saturate a stationary target with high volume of fire. Good for blinding the enemy

Cons:

• For use against anything, you have to face tank the enemy for more than a few seconds to do any meaningful damage, which considering the weapon tonnage is hardly justified
  
• Both RAC2 and RAC5 have unbelievably slow projectile speeds. Knowing that the shells fired by those weapons are so small (0.5 damage/shell for RAC2 and 1.2 damage/shell for RAC5), you would expect the velocity to be in excess of 2000 m/s
  
• RAC2 has a very short range considering its low damage output and weight.
  
• RAC2 and RAC5 heat penalty limit set at 2 is the nail in the coffin for them

What can be done:

• Increase RAC2 projectile velocity to 2200m/s and RAC5 to 1800m/s
  
• Increase RAC2 range to 600m
  
• Reduce spool up time for both RAC 2 and 5 by half
  
• Increase heat penalty limit for RAC 2 to 4 and for RAC5 to 3

LBX ACs:

Spoiler

LBX 2/5/20
Apart from LB10, I see little use for the rest of the IS LBX family because of their slot size.

Pros:

• IS now has LBX
  
• LBx20 has no heat penalty (unlike AC20) for dual LB20 brawler setups.

Cons:

• 4 slots for LBX2 is way too large to fit in large numbers.
  
• LBx5 does not have any advantage over normal AC5
  
• LBx20 cannot be equipped in the arms. Putting it in torsos means no light engine, which is a major drawback for a lot of mechs. Apart from that, AC20 with the same tonnage, pinpoint damage and smaller size is superior.

What can be done:

• Not much can be done to LBx 2/5/20. Reduced heat, less cooldown, and more crit chance are possible options.

Ultra ACs:

Spoiler

Ultra AC 2/10/20
Great additions to IS weapons

Pros:

• UAC10 and UAC20 are going to liven up many ballistic IS mechs, especially when they are the same size as their normal counterparts.
  
• UAC2 and UAC5 can be used effectively with each other on a large number of ballistic boats
  
• No heat penalty on UAC20 is a very welcome move.

Cons:

• Nothing

What can be done:

• Improve the effectiveness of jam nodes

Machine Guns:

Spoiler

LMG and HMG
Nice alternatives for MG

Pros:

• HMG can be deadly upclose

Cons:

• LMG is hardly useful in any situation
  
• HMG range is a bit too short

What can be done:

• Increase ammo count for LMG to 4000
  
• Increase the range of LMG to 300m
  
• Increase the range of regular MG to 150m
  
• Increase the range of HMG to 100m

PPCs:

Spoiler

PPCs
Plenty of options and flavors for a somewhat monotonic weapon

Pros:

• 2 slot Snub-nose PPC and light PPCs can be equipped on CT hardpoints

Cons:

• Heavy PPC upfront damage is too low to justify the extra weight/size and heat
  
• Heat penalty limit of 2 is way too low for light PPCs

What can be done:

• Increase the heat penalty of light PPCs to 4 at least
  
• Increase the upfront damage of heavy PPCs to 15 with no splash

ER lasers:

Spoiler

ER small and ER medium lasers
IS ER lasers are great

Pros:

• If heat is not a problem, ER SL and ERMLs are your go to weapons to fill out those E hardpoints
  
• Same duration as their normal versions are welcome
  
• ER medium laser perfectly syncs with Large pulse laser both in term of cooldown and range

Cons:

• Nothing really

What can be done:

• Don’t mess them up

MRMs:

Spoiler

MRMs
A niche missile weapons

Pros:

• Mechs with low number of missile hardpoints now have a heavy hitter missile option
  
• The stream do not follow the reticle. Missiles go to the point that you shot at which makes it possible to torso twist without wasting half the salvo into nowhere. A good mechanic. You won’t be using MRMs against lights… so better have it effective against big targets.

Cons:

• Large spread makes using the weapon limited to mechs with spread reduction quirks.
  
• Stream fire makes it really hard to be effective at close range
  
• Slow velocity makes it hard to use in mid range

What can be done:

Spread and stream fire should be used to counter balance a weapon. If you put stream fire in, then making the spread large is going to kill the weapon. Only apply one trait… either spread OR stream fire.

• reduce spread or remove stream fire

Streak SRMs:

Spoiler

SSRM 4/6
Nice anti-light options for IS

Pros:

• RIP clan lights
  
• Good cooldowns

Cons:

• Nothing really

What can be done:

• A range increase to 300m maybe

Rocket Launchers:

Spoiler

Rocket launcher:
Kamikaze mechs!!!

Pros:

• Those empty missile hardpoints can now save you from a sticky situation
  
• Light and medium assassins are real!!!

Cons:

• Well, they are one shot!

What can be done:

• Balancing a one shot weapon can be hard…. Still need more testing

Clans:

ATMs:

Spoiler

ATMs
Clan missiles are now getting interesting

Pros:

• A very versatile weapon system. Can be deadly in capable hands.
  
• Flight trajectory is more flat compared to C-LRMs… faster time to target.

Cons:

• Minimum range nearly kills this weapon
  
• Very low ammo count

What can be done:

• Remove or significantly reduce minimum range. Even a linear damage ramp up from 0 to 90m would work for this weapon
  
• Increase missiles per ton of ammo to 100

Comments:

Despite popular belief, they are not CT drilling machines. They have the same tracking strength as C-LRMs. try them in a live match.
They are not a rival to clan srms. SRMs still have velocity, cooldown, tonnage, ammo, size, and spread advantage.

Heavy lasers:

Spoiler

Heavy lasers
Meh!

Pros:

• High damage for low tonnage

Cons:

• Extremely long durations make this weapon almost useless
  
• Long cooldown considering the short range of the weapon

What can be done:


Consider the weapon range when you are doing balance. These are close range weapons. At close range, long duration means the weapon is useless. Heat and cooldown alone are playing the role of balancing this weapon.
Use it as a rule of thumb PGI, in order to balance something, do not mess with the core usability of a weapon, but factor in other features that affects damage output.

• Reduce durations across the board (HLL: 1.5s, HML: 1.25s, HSL: 1s)

Comments:

Lower durations for these weapons will not make ER lasers obsolete. Consider Range, heat and cooldown tradeoffs, and how close range fights gameplay are (i.e. no poke game)

Micro lasers:

Spoiler

ER Micro and micro pulse lasers
pew pew!

Pros:

• A good close range filler weapon for that extra punch you need for the kill
  
• Micro pulse laser shows how bad small pulse laser is at the moment

Cons:

• For the heat and cooldown of the ER micro laser, the damage is too small
  
• Micro pulse laser cooldown is too long considering its range

What can be done:

• Increase the damage of the C-SMALL PULSE laser to 5 (there is no questions or buts on this one… just do it.)
  
• Increase the damage of ER micro laser to 3
  
• Reduce the cooldown of micro pulse laser to 1.6 at least
  
• Increase the range of micro pulse laser to 100m

Machine guns:

Spoiler

LMG and HMG
Nice alternatives for MG

Pros:

• HMG can be deadly upclose

Cons:

• LMG is hardly useful in any situation
  
• HMG range is a bit too short

What can be done:

• Increase ammo count for LMG to 4000
  
• Increase the range of LMG to 300m
  
• Increase the range of regular MG to 150m
  
• Increase the range of HMG to 100m

Edited by Navid A1, 30 June 2017 - 12:54 PM.

[W31rdWarrior]

Navid A1, on 30 June 2017 - 01:01 AM, said:

The stream do not follow the reticle. Missiles go to the point that you shot at which makes it possible to torso twist without wasting half the salvo into nowhere. A good mechanic. You won’t be using MRMs against lights… so better have it effective against big targets.

This, MRMs are unguided, that means they must follow your reticle, if you turn, the remaining stream must go where you point.

Navid A1, on 30 June 2017 - 01:01 AM, said:

Increase the upfront damage of heavy PPCs to 15 with no splash

No other words needed

Navid A1, on 30 June 2017 - 01:01 AM, said:

LBx20 cannot be equipped in the arms. Putting it in torsos means no light engine, which is a major drawback for a lot of mechs. Apart from that, AC20 with the same tonnage, pinpoint damage and smaller size is superior.

Yep, on the Atlas with the AC/20 I can put LFE, with LBX-20 i can't and it seems not to be effective as it's counterpart.

Edited by W31rdWarrior, 30 June 2017 - 03:08 AM.

[Ruar]

I like most of your solutions, but you are wrong about HMGs. They are already OP even with the short range. They probably need to have their critical damage boost removed and just be straight damage weapons instead of internal killer as well.

Instead of a huge range boost I would like the Light Gauss to actually be light. The Light PPC does a good job of trading weight for damage and should be used as the example. Significantly reduce the weight of the Light Gauss in proportion to the damage reduction.

[Navid A1]

Ruar, on 30 June 2017 - 03:24 AM, said:

I like most of your solutions, but you are wrong about HMGs. They are already OP even with the short range. They probably need to have their critical damage boost removed and just be straight damage weapons instead of internal killer as well.

Instead of a huge range boost I would like the Light Gauss to actually be light. The Light PPC does a good job of trading weight for damage and should be used as the example. Significantly reduce the weight of the Light Gauss in proportion to the damage reduction.

There is one rule that can not be touched... Weight and size of equipments are the red line which can not be crossed.
I even don't mind if they remove gauss charge for L gauss

W31rdWarrior, on 30 June 2017 - 03:01 AM, said:

This, MRMs are unguided, that means they must follow your reticle, if you turn, the remaining stream must go where you point.

Actually MRMs going to the single point you shot at is a positive trait... otherwise you would be unable to torso twist without wasting your missiles

[Ruar]

Navid A1, on 30 June 2017 - 04:11 AM, said:

There is one rule that can not be touched... Weight and size of equipments are the red line which can not be crossed.
I even don't mind if they remove gauss charge for L gauss



Actually MRMs going to the single point you shot at is a positive trait... otherwise you would be unable to torso twist without wasting your missiles

They added quirks, I have no idea why they would completely limit themselves on weight and size.

As for MRMs, the problem with everything going to the aim point is they stream so hitting a moving target with the full spread is almost impossible. If you lead the target so the first missiles hit then the last missiles miss or vice versa. While being able to twist is a nice thing, I'd much rather have my weapons hit the target. Otherwise your MRM20 is basically just a 10 when it comes to damage on anything moving.

Ideally they get rid of the stream effect, tighten the spread, and increase the velocity (425ish). If they have to keep the streaming effect then they have to tighten the spread and really increase the velocity(500ish).

In the end I can use the skill tree to adjust torso twist rates or just be more defensive in my movements, but I can't increase the damage of a weapon when the majority of the shot misses. Weapons should be effective in their role and right now MRMs have no role or effectiveness.

[Kalleballe]

How about decreasing minimum number of heat sinks from 10 to 8?
Srm and ballistic lights often cannot bring enough ammo because of this.

[Navid A1]

Ruar, on 30 June 2017 - 05:28 AM, said:

They added quirks, I have no idea why they would completely limit themselves on weight and size.

As for MRMs, the problem with everything going to the aim point is they stream so hitting a moving target with the full spread is almost impossible. If you lead the target so the first missiles hit then the last missiles miss or vice versa. While being able to twist is a nice thing, I'd much rather have my weapons hit the target. Otherwise your MRM20 is basically just a 10 when it comes to damage on anything moving.

Ideally they get rid of the stream effect, tighten the spread, and increase the velocity (425ish). If they have to keep the streaming effect then they have to tighten the spread and really increase the velocity(500ish).

In the end I can use the skill tree to adjust torso twist rates or just be more defensive in my movements, but I can't increase the damage of a weapon when the majority of the shot misses. Weapons should be effective in their role and right now MRMs have no role or effectiveness.

Ideally i'd prefer no stream fire for MRMs... but if they wanna stick with stream fire, then i'd prefer them to all hit the same spot rather than following the reticle

If they follow thee reticle, they would become useless, since you can not torso twist until the stream is finished

[Ruar]

Navid A1, on 30 June 2017 - 06:20 AM, said:

Ideally i'd prefer no stream fire for MRMs... but if they wanna stick with stream fire, then i'd prefer them to all hit the same spot rather than following the reticle

If they follow thee reticle, they would become useless, since you can not torso twist until the stream is finished

You would still be able to twist, you'd just be twisting in the direction the other mech is moving. That said, I wish they would just get rid of the stream and let me fire a single blast like SRMs. They are trying to do too much and MRMs should be really simple. If they fear for too much damage then just reduce the damage each rack does in total. I want a weapon that hits where I aim with enough velocity to be used at range and a small enough spread I can focus on specific areas. If that means I do 15-20% less damage per volley that is fine. Currently I'm losing 50% or more damage per volley in the best circumstances.

[DrFawstus]

I share a few opinions with the OP. The weapons I tested more extensively were the RACs, the IR ER lasers and the PPCs, so I will only comment about that.

RACs: Cool weaponry. I mean, can a single cannon spell "Dakka" in a cooler way? No. However, it takes ages to drill through the CT of any heavy or assault 'mech. Which means this is a weapon made for suppressing fire. Or for second-line fire 'mechs that are not there for trading. It is hard to combine this weapon system with anything but LRMs that also require facing to keep the target locked. I'd also like to know what are the jam chances. I could shoot my RAC 2s for more than twice the time it took to 'go red' before it jammed, and sometimes they would jam immediately. Go figure.

IR ER Lasers: Damn, PGI, I love these pew pews. I like to face enemies at medium to long range, and being able to hit someone at 500ish meters with a heat efficient and still decent damage is like a dream come true. I typically use IR LL or LPL to do this job, but now I can do this with ER ML. As the OP said, don't screw these. They feel good to shoot (the sound is excellent) and don't seem to be OP.

MRMs: or as I like to call them, MMMs. Visually, the MRMs 20 and up are cool as hell. Damn, I've been trying the MRM 30s and that stream of missiles is so damn nice to see. Problem is: spread. Too much spread for a weapon system that should be hitting stuff more than 400m away. My suggestion? Make it a cone that starts with a big spread and reduces as it travels. It will reward precise aiming at a distance and won't overshadow SRMs at short range. I mean, SRMs already are more slot efficient and deal more damage on a single volley anyways.

[davoodoo]

I wonder why mrms still have such a huge spread when they also have a burn time.
They could be pinpoint accurate and it would still be tradeoff of 40 dmg with double burn time of 20dmg from burstfire ac.
Then idk if its bug or feature, but you should be able to correct your fire.

1)Snub and heavy gauss range is way too low, 450m optimal for snub with 675m max and 600/900m for heavy gauss

2)Light ppc should have ghost heat at 4 at least and separate from other ppcs.

3)Racs need doubling their jam bar and not filling it up until it actually fires.

4)heavy ppc should have splash removed

5)light gauss charge removal and upping ghost heat to 4 while lowering cd to 3.5s
48 tons + ammo for 32 dmg vs 30 tons + ammo for 30dmg so lets at least make it interesting for those mechs which can spare 48tons and 4b slots.

6)atms minimal range removal and flat trajectory(too many times ive killed enemy by blowing its legs)

7)crit sharing from tt for lb20x, uac20, ac20 and heavy gauss.

Edited by davoodoo, 30 June 2017 - 07:00 AM.

[Cato Phoenix]

I agree on almost all points, very good analysis.

However:

Navid A1, on 30 June 2017 - 06:20 AM, said:

Ideally i'd prefer no stream fire for MRMs... but if they wanna stick with stream fire, then i'd prefer them to all hit the same spot rather than following the reticle If they follow thee reticle, they would become useless, since you can not torso twist until the stream is finished

They have to fix this. It doesn't make sense that missiles stream out of the side of your mech, not the actual tubes. It's got to obey physics

[Navid A1]

One thing I like PGI to understand is to not mess much with weapon mechanics and usability for balance (e.g. eternity durations, reticle AND cockpit shake, different charge up times, etc).
But to balance using conventional attributes (e.g. cooldowns and heat)

And to always take into account the sacrifices a build has to make in order to use a specific weapon