15 replies to this topic

[kapusta11]

It has 180m optimal range. Wtf PGI? It's not a buff, it's a joke.

Next time try any of the following:

• reduce its size to 10 crits
  
• reduce its cooldown
  
• remove charge
  
• increase optimal range to 270m
  
• increase ammo per ton

Edited by kapusta11, 30 June 2017 - 01:28 PM.

[JadePanther]

10 slots for a 25 dmg weapon.. no thank you. we dont need to make dual heavy gauss builds any easier.. the must be a price to pay for such pinpoint damage..

Yes i do know theres crit splitting in TT and all but this isnt TT where theres RNGesus to pray to every time you pull the trigger.. Now if there were spread inaccuracy for firing such a large caliber short barreled weapon i might be more inclined to agree.. but since its pin point, low heat, high damage, no RNGesus, there has to be some tradeoffs on the other side of the equation..

low ammo is a trade off of a large damage weapon.. ac/20 is 7 shots a ton sooo 5 seems ok. i'd call the slots trade off for the accuracy being pinpoint. cooldown goes with the damage. and range is based on TT sooo dont think thats changing...


gauss charge is a whole different debate in itself that i'd have to say needs adjustments.. By military practice, ITS HORRIBLE.. gauss charge is like going into battle with an unloaded weapon.. you dont give guys guns and then ammo and ask them not to put the ammo in until your getting shot at.. Tanks drive into battle with the gun breech loaded..

Theres also the nature of capacitors and how they function. Gauss needs huge amounts of electrical power.. Capacitors hold and discharge this power at very fast and very large rates.. How long they hold that charge is dependant on the circutry they are attached to.. With no resistance linked to ground in the circut they can hold it pretty much indefinetly.. Tvs and other high capacitor appliances have built in bleed off circuits attched to them to drain the caps when the appliance is not in use, this is a safety measure.. Before these circuits were in use repairmen would first locate the capacitors and short them to drain any power they held.. If you want to see examples of sizable discharges from capacitors look up photonic induction on youtube. But he's pretty much playing with kiddie power compared to what a gauss rifle would require i imagine..

So a guass rifle needs a bunch of huge capacitors to be charged up and ready to discharge a huge surge of power.. This is thier vulnerability.. A critical hit to one of those caps while the system is fully charged would cause a huge explosive discharge.. hence the weapon explosion chance.

But the system comes at ends when military practice is ignored and caps are left uncharged until firing.. This is when there should be no explosion possibilitys.. Uncharged caps are not volitile, they dont risk explosion.. Soooo this exposes flaws in the current critical hit system and gauss riflies.. leading us to have to make one of 2 paths of choices..

path one.. gauss charge..
-- keep gauss charge up time
-- remove crit explosion, either totally or only while weapon is charged.. since charge time is small i'd say just reduce it entirely...

path two.. no gauss charge
-- keep explosion chances on weapon.. weapon is always charged and vulnerable to explosions..
-- remove charge up time as it would be done during the reloading cycle..

[kapusta11]

Heavy Gauss is 4 tons heavier than AC20, you need 4.5 tons heavier engine (STD300 vs LFE300), 2 more tons for every 35 ammo, it has 2.5 sec longer cooldown, 1 sec charge, it explodes on crit, has recoil etc. Don't you think it's a little bit too much for just 5 more damage?

Edited by kapusta11, 30 June 2017 - 02:31 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

kapusta11, on 30 June 2017 - 02:30 PM, said:

Heavy Gauss is 4 tons heavier than AC20, you need 4.5 tons heavier engine (STD300 vs LFE300), 2 more tons for every 35 ammo, it has 2.5 sec longer cooldown, 1 sec charge, it explodes on crit, has recoil etc. Don't you think it's a little bit too much for just 5 more damage?

Add that it has horrible range, it explodes quite spectacularly, can't be put on the arms.

Honestly i don't know whether Fafnir would even be great.

[davoodoo]

Actually in tt you could easily fit light engine and 2 heavy gauss though you wouldnt fit anything else in ct.

But with 180m range its a ******* joke, why wouldnt i take uac20 over it?

Edited by davoodoo, 30 June 2017 - 02:53 PM.

[TankBadger42]

Heat, range, alpla. They are great guns, if you can't use them its down to you.

[davoodoo]

TankBadger42, on 30 June 2017 - 02:58 PM, said:

Heat, range, alpla. They are great guns, if you can't use them its down to you.

180m for 25 damage at 18 tons + ammo
Why not use uac20 at 15 tons + ammo which does 40 dmg per cd at 270m.

at this point might aswell pack 5 medium lasers at 5 tons to match its damage and outrange it...or 3 erll at 15 tons doing 27 dmg, or even dual ppc doing 20 dmg at 14 tons would be better choice.

If thats great gun then what is bad??

Edited by davoodoo, 30 June 2017 - 03:08 PM.

[Koniving]

The6thMessenger, on 30 June 2017 - 02:37 PM, said:

Add that it has horrible range, it explodes quite spectacularly, can't be put on the arms.

Honestly i don't know whether Fafnir would even be great.

According to Sarna and the way PGI normally does range, Heavy Gauss is supposed to have 600 meters optimal range.

Why in the living **** is it 180m?

[davoodoo]

Koniving, on 30 June 2017 - 03:05 PM, said:

According to Sarna and the way PGI normally does range, Heavy Gauss is supposed to have 600 meters optimal range.

Why in the living **** is it 180m?

because as with snub pgi had bright idea to follow tt rules(too bad they forgot crit sharing rule...)

So **** it short range 270m for snub 180m for heavy gauss.
Funny thing is that now medium laser outrange heavy gauss while it should have half the short range...

Edited by davoodoo, 30 June 2017 - 03:13 PM.

[The Pug Commander]

Have you actually played or ran into a dual heavy gauss mech at 180m? lol its brutal

[Gentleman Reaper]

Koniving, on 30 June 2017 - 03:05 PM, said:

According to Sarna and the way PGI normally does range, Heavy Gauss is supposed to have 600 meters optimal range.

Why in the living **** is it 180m?

This is incorrect, per Sarna, the Gauss does 25 damage until 180m, 20 damage to 390m, and 10 damage to 540m. Since MWO uses the long range value as the optimal, with max being double that, if we applied doubled values to the damage fall-off range we would get an optimal of 360m and a max of 1080m, which are the values I'm wishing for, with a velocity of 1200.

[Koniving]

davoodoo, on 30 June 2017 - 03:10 PM, said:

because as with snub pgi had bright idea to follow tt rules(too bad they forgot crit sharing rule...)

So **** it short range 270m for snub 180m for heavy gauss.
Funny thing is that now medium laser outrange heavy gauss while it should have half the short range...

Even then, PGI has always just did "Long Range" = Optimum range.

Though, while the "damage" isn't really explained via Sarna, Mech Factory or the Tech Manual beyond (loss of kinetic energy which is complete ******** because in reality if you got a hefty shell or ANYTHING heavy to move, it would take an IMMENSE amount of force to curve its momentum), the Heavy Gauss has plenty of penalty that could have been unique to the Gauss Rifle. Specifically: It gets modestly to significantly reduced accuracy when you are moving while fired. (And it can knock you down). Even the accuracy is enough. Basically for pinpoint stand still. If you are moving it is reduced. For each mech class, the effect is compounded as you go down in size.

There you go. ******** solved.

I can see why PGI went for it, mainly so that it would gradually reduce in effect but it sure as **** better have far superior than "2x optimal range". Something like 8x optimal range so that the shell gradually drops from 25 to 0 as it reaches 1440 meters. At 315 meters it would deliver 18.75 damage. At 630 meters it would deliver 12.5 damage. At 945 meters it would deliver 6.25 damage. 0 damage at 1440 meters.

In comparison the Gauss Rifle currently does:
15 damage at 660 meters.
11.25 damage at 825 meters.
7.5 damage at 990 meters
3.75 damage at 1155 meters.
0 damage at 1320 meters.

Seems like a pretty fair trade, no?

Gentleman Reaper, on 30 June 2017 - 03:48 PM, said:

This is incorrect, per Sarna, the Gauss does 25 damage until 180m, 20 damage to 390m, and 10 damage to 540m. Since MWO uses the long range value as the optimal, with max being double that, if we applied doubled values to the damage fall-off range we would get an optimal of 360m and a max of 1080m, which are the values I'm wishing for, with a velocity of 1200.

Covered in what I said after digging through it. Somewhat.

[davoodoo]

Gentleman Reaper, on 30 June 2017 - 03:48 PM, said:

This is incorrect, per Sarna, the Gauss does 25 damage until 180m, 20 damage to 390m, and 10 damage to 540m.

6x30=180 ok
13x30=390 ok
but where did you get 540 when long range is 20?? 600m is long range fo heavy gauss, which is why i proposed 2 models for hgr
390 optimal 1200 max and it still wouldnt make it viable.
or 600 optimal 900 max ignoring 20 dmg bracket and having steep falloff.

Koniving, on 30 June 2017 - 03:49 PM, said:

I can see why PGI went for it, mainly so that it would gradually reduce in effect but it sure as **** better have far superior than "2x optimal range". Something like 8x optimal range so that the shell gradually drops from 25 to 0 as it reaches 1440 meters. At 315 meters it would deliver 18.75 damage. At 630 meters it would deliver 12.5 damage. At 945 meters it would deliver 6.25 damage. 0 damage at 1440 meters.

Except that ac20 already does 20 dmg at 270m(16.67 at 315m) and theres also uac20.

Why would i ever use that heavy gauss?? i pay 4 extra tons, with huge bomb strapped to my side for 2 extra dmg at 315m unless i decide to get uac20 then i pay 3 extra for doing 56% damage while still having huge bomb strapped to my side which also prevents me from getting lighter engine.

Edited by davoodoo, 30 June 2017 - 04:04 PM.

[Koniving]

davoodoo, on 30 June 2017 - 03:57 PM, said:

6x30=180 ok
13x30=390 ok
but where did you get 540 when long range is 20??

Except that ac20 already does 20 dmg at 270m(16.67 at 315m) and theres also uac20.

Why would i ever use that heavy gauss?? i pay 4 extra tons, with huge bomb strapped to my side for 2 extra dmg at 315m unless i decide to get uac20 then i pay 3 extra for doing 56% damage while still having huge bomb strapped to my side which also prevents me from getting lighter engine.

Could enhance it to 10x optimum range, in which case it'd be slightly better.

The thing is if PGI did the **** according to lore, that AC/20 would be anywhere from 4 to 100 shots to get 20 damage over time, while that Gauss Rifle would be "BOOM" and done.

[Gentleman Reaper]

davoodoo, on 30 June 2017 - 03:57 PM, said:

6x30=180 ok
13x30=390 ok
but where did you get 540 when long range is 20??

Ah, my mistake, I looked at the 18 tons by accident.

[davoodoo]

Koniving, on 30 June 2017 - 04:03 PM, said:

Could enhance it to 10x optimum range, in which case it'd be slightly better.

The thing is if PGI did the **** according to lore, that AC/20 would be anywhere from 4 to 100 shots to get 20 damage over time, while that Gauss Rifle would be "BOOM" and done.

lets enhance it to 12 times 180m.

2160m max range, 1dmg lost per 79m.
576m will give us 20 dmg, now you can consider it viable though it will obselete gauss as sniper weapon.

Remember its 18 tons 11 crits weapon which also packs merely 5 shells per ton, youre looking at 23 tons and 16 crits just to supply 1, for that tonnage i could strap uac20 and plenty of ammo and if i counted in light engine savings 4 backup er mediums and dhs to keep it all cool.

also we already have burst fire acs which arent that much of a hindrance not when you consider possibility for double damage.

Edited by davoodoo, 30 June 2017 - 04:22 PM.