32 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

Khobai, on 01 July 2017 - 05:10 PM, said:

except ATMs having no min range doesnt invalidate SSRMs

stealth armor does

PPC hits turns it off, so I have to assume BAP also does
(which can be tested)

[Felicitatem Parco]

Khobai, on 01 July 2017 - 04:43 PM, said:

ATMs should have no min range.

the whole point of ATMs is to be a versatile missile system thats good but not great at all ranges.

it should be good at short range but not as good as SRMs

it should be good at long range but not as good as LRMs

Long Range ATMs have a 180 m minimum range. Short range ATMs deal 3 damage each.

Since 3 different ammo types are being wrapped into one you need a way to represent their drawbacks intead of simply merging all their strengths into one package. Giving them a min range of 120 or so is a good price to pay for your 36-damage SRM pack that use only one hardpoint, and can also be used at medium and long ranges.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 01 July 2017 - 05:17 PM.

[Kaeb Odellas]

They ought to reduce the minimum range for IS LRMs as well.

[El Bandito]

Khobai, on 01 July 2017 - 05:10 PM, said:

except ATMs having no min range doesnt invalidate SSRMs

stealth armor does

I disagree. Without minimum range, ATM will deal more effective damage thsn SSRM due to shots concentrating on torsi. Its the entire reason why Clan LRMs got minimum range in contrast to lore. To not invalidate the SSRM.

[El Bandito]

Kaeb Odellas, on 01 July 2017 - 05:29 PM, said:

They ought to reduce the minimum range for IS LRMs as well.

Yes, due to LRM's actual effective range, which is sub 600 meters, the minimum range should be reduced to 120 meters for IS LRM, and 160 meters for CLRM.

[Mister Blastman]

Khobai, on 01 July 2017 - 03:52 PM, said:

no.

its damage was fine at 12/1.5/1.5

the problem is the absurd 14.5 heat. its heat needs to be like 12.5-13 at most.

14.5 heat is fine for a weapon that does 15 pts pinpoint.

10 tons
4 crits
reduced range

It DESERVES 15 points pinpoint.

[Mcgral18]

Prosperity Park, on 01 July 2017 - 05:15 PM, said:

Long Range ATMs have a 180 m minimum range. Short range ATMs deal 3 damage each.

Since 3 different ammo types are being wrapped into one you need a way to represent their drawbacks intead of simply merging all their strengths into one package. Giving them a min range of 120 or so is a good price to pay for your 36-damage SRM pack that use only one hardpoint, and can also be used at medium and long ranges.

They could always reduce damage


2.5 is still perfectly fair, for a 0-60M Min range

[El Bandito]

Mister Blastman, on 01 July 2017 - 05:40 PM, said:

14.5 heat is fine for a weapon that does 15 pts pinpoint.

10 tons
4 crits
reduced range

It DESERVES 15 points pinpoint.

I guess the chief argument rests on whether adding 15 PPFLD energy weapon is worth the potential grief. HPPC needs more buffs that much is certain.

[Khobai]

Quote

14.5 heat is fine for a weapon that does 15 pts pinpoint.

10 tons
4 crits
reduced range

It DESERVES 15 points pinpoint.

Ghost heat limit it at 1 and id be cool with that.

But with a ghost heat limit of 2 it should not do 15 pinpoint damage.

I am not a fan of adding more combinations of weapons that do 30+ PPFLD to the game. Especially not ones that combo so obviously with gauss.

PPFLD is a blight on the game, it breaks the armor system when people abuse it, and adding more PPFLD is not something that should be considered lightly. If anything PGI needs to crack down more heavily on PPFLD across the board.

Quote

I guess the chief argument rests on whether adding 15 PPFLD energy weapon is worth the potential grief. HPPC needs more buffs that much is certain.

I still think leaving the damage at 13/1/1, lowering the heat to 12.5-13, and removing the 90m damage deadzone from all PPCs and changing it to a 90m linear damage dropoff instead is still the best way to fix it.

I think the quality of life improvement of removing the deadzone on PPCs in exchange for linear damage dropoff is preferable to anything else. Can also give PPCs a HUD disruption effect and HPPCs can disrupt an extra amount.

But more PPFLD is a terrible idea as far as im concerned.

Edited by Khobai, 01 July 2017 - 06:04 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Khobai, on 01 July 2017 - 04:43 PM, said:

ATMs should have no min range.

the whole point of ATMs is to be a versatile missile system thats good but not great at all ranges.

it should be good at short range but not as good as SRMs

it should be good at long range but not as good as LRMs

Scale damage down inside 120m. More health. 300 m/s.

Magic happy good place.

[Khobai]

Quote

Scale damage down inside 120m. More health. 300 m/s.

That might work on the short range side for ATMs

But on the long range side I still think ATMs need to fire at a lower angle so theyre not as good at indirect fire as LRMs. They need an 810m max range too because its kindve silly to have them outrange LRMs (yeah I know they outrange LRMs in tabletop, but theyre also outright better than LRMs in tabletop, and in MWO ATMs and LRMs need to coexist).

And yeah they definitely need more health. I think 1.5 health per missile instead of 1 per missile would be fine.

And lastly I think they need their ammo per ton increased from 72 to 90. Just so theyre more consistent with LRMs for damage per ton.

Edited by Khobai, 01 July 2017 - 06:02 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

El Bandito, on 01 July 2017 - 05:46 PM, said:

I guess the chief argument rests on whether adding 15 PPFLD energy weapon is worth the potential grief. HPPC needs more buffs that much is certain.

I think it is fine. We have gauss rifles with 15 ppfld... And unlike gauss rifles, PPCs are clear as day as to their shooter's position.

Khobai, on 01 July 2017 - 05:47 PM, said:

Ghost heat limit it at 1 and id be cool with that.

But with a ghost heat limit of 2 it should not do 15 pinpoint damage.

I am not a fan of adding more combinations of weapons that do 30+ PPFLD to the game. Especially not ones that combo so obviously with gauss.

PPFLD is a blight on the game, it breaks the armor system when people abuse it, and adding more PPFLD is not something that should be considered lightly. If anything PGI needs to crack down more heavily on PPFLD across the board.

Then gauss rifles need to be restricted to firing only one at a time...

I don't see that ever happening. And PPCs have far less problems than gauss rifles, anyways.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 01 July 2017 - 07:03 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Khobai, on 01 July 2017 - 05:59 PM, said:

That might work on the short range side for ATMs

But on the long range side I still think ATMs need to fire at a lower angle so theyre not as good at indirect fire as LRMs. They need an 810m max range too because its kindve silly to have them outrange LRMs (yeah I know they outrange LRMs in tabletop, but theyre also outright better than LRMs in tabletop, and in MWO ATMs and LRMs need to coexist).

And yeah they definitely need more health. I think 1.5 health per missile instead of 1 per missile would be fine.

And lastly I think they need their ammo per ton increased from 72 to 90. Just so theyre more consistent with LRMs for damage per ton.

2.0 health per missile would be better imo. You're firing 50% fewer missiles, pegging them health-wise to SRMs isn't unreasonable.

The slight arc on the trajectory is just to help with low mounted launchers. It's almost exactly flat. Wouldn't complain if they were flatter and ranged out at 810m though.