18 replies to this topic

[Marquis De Lafayette]

...Advanced Tactical Math...

Like them or hate them. I'm just stating the obvious here.

Can I fire at this range and do damage?
How much damage will I do if I fire at this range and hit?
What does firing at this range do to my expected dmg per ton? So, is it worth it to fire from longer range with the ammo I have left?
...And so on.

This family of weapons adds a whole new level of math calculations to a game that is already full of MATH calculations....we do so like our spreadsheets here in MWO...so let's just go ahead and call the ATM what it really is.

[FireStoat]

Other forum boards with people posting about the game have been rightfully calling them A** To Mouth.

A lot of Clan players like myself were really looking forward to the missile being what was written up for the Table Top game. When the announcement was made that scaling damage would happen instead of different ammo types, we were okay with the idea of the missile being either good to great in value for brawling or the middle range game.

Instead we were given this minimum range nonsense. Until the missile is given a better performance AND a better health rating vs anti missile systems, it will instead earn the above name and people will use SRMs and LRMs and forget about a middle range missile.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

We could say the same thing about the PPC, or most weapons that have damage fall off, only difference is that ATMs have a longer falloff zone with a couple parts were it holds a number solid rather than being a straight line down.

ATM 3 damage optimal range is 270 I think, either that or 360, the min range is 120 now I think.

So just fire if the target is over 120m away and you'll do damage, if you are in your optimal range of 270 then you deal more damage, if you are past that then you start dealing less.


It would be a lot better if they just didn't have a min range so they could be used for brawling weapons that function as their own backup weapons for longer ranges like they were supposed to.

[MadRover]

at least they buffed ATMs.

[fat4eyes]

You only need to remember 4 numbers: 1000, 500, 270 and 120(or whatever the min range will be after release). It's hardly rocket science.

There will be a lot of crying about ATMs when they come out. They are really good, and could be the noob tube replacement for lrms.

Edited by fat4eyes, 02 July 2017 - 11:46 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Abnormally Tricky Missiles

[Andi Nagasia]

fat4eyes, on 02 July 2017 - 11:44 AM, said:

You only need to remember 4 numbers: 1000, 500, 270 and 120(or whatever the min range will be after release). It's hardly rocket science.

There will be a lot of crying about ATMs when they come out. They are really good, and could be the noob tube replacement for lrms.

really good? perhaps at 120-270, assuming their is no AMS on the enemy team at all,
1AMS system can take out a 5ATM missiles at 120m, so dont plan on them working vs well vs AMS,
with AMS overload that becomes 7shot down missiles, you decide,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 02 July 2017 - 11:51 AM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Andi Nagasia, on 02 July 2017 - 11:50 AM, said:

really good? perhaps at 120-270, assuming their is no AMS on the enemy team at all,
1AMS system can take out a 5ATM missiles at 120m, so dont plan on them working vs well vs AMS,
with AMS overload that becomes 7shot down missiles, you decide,

So a 3 AMS Nova will basically be immune to ATMs you say?

[fat4eyes]

Andi Nagasia, on 02 July 2017 - 11:50 AM, said:

really good? perhaps at 120-270, assuming their is no AMS on the enemy team at all,
1AMS system can take out a 5ATM missiles at 120m, so dont plan on them working vs well vs AMS,
with AMS overload that becomes 7shot down missiles, you decide,

Fortunately noone takes AMS when I play, though that may change with ATMs. ATM 24 can take down the front arnor of an Atlas in 4-5 volleys. That's a big deal, especially for a lockon weapon. And to add to that they don't have much impulse, so getting hit with ATMs 'feels' like getting hit with LRMs but hurts a LOT more. People are more likely to ignore getting hit by ATMs than they will getting hit by streaks or srms, giving you more time to do damage.

[RedDragon]

fat4eyes, on 02 July 2017 - 11:44 AM, said:

It's hardly rocket science.

I see what you did there!
But is it missile science?

[Khobai]

ATM minimum range needs to be removed.

If the damage is too high then just lower the damage, thats fine to do.

but they should have no min range. because the whole point of ATMs is to be a jack-of-all-trades missile system thats viable at every range band. There should be no range band where they simply do 0 damage.

I also think ATM max range needs to be 810m. 1100m is a bit much and kindve steps on the toes of LRMs.

Lastly they need a missile health increase because AMS destroys them way too easily. A 50% health increase should be sufficient.

Edited by Khobai, 02 July 2017 - 01:45 PM.

[Johnny Z]

Yep they are letting TT and the design people make this a convoluted mess and hurting the sim at the same time. Would be nice if they can make all this new and old equipment all work together well and have proper balance.

I do think they are heading that way and that is why this test server is so important for players, the game and the people making the game.

I am actually not to worried because the skill tree was basically perfect and that was a true feat. It is interesting and covered all the various options and easy to use and a lot of great things. I hope they can do the same with all this new tech and old tech.

There is an amazing variety of fun equipment and fun mechs, I doubt they will screw that up with silly numbers etc and instead try stick to the sim. SIM FTW.

Again trying not to sound negative even if it doesn't look perfect at the moment because the game is really well done up until now.

Also the sound effects for Inner Sphere are so bad, really really bad. Visuals could be better to.

Edited by Johnny Z, 02 July 2017 - 01:58 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

I think there needs to be a minimum range but I think it should be reduced to 90m. I also think the health of the missiles needs to go up so more actually make it through AMS. Lastly I feel the ammo count is way too low. Even in the 4 vs 4 battles I find myself running out or running low on ammo, no way in hell any normal amount of ammo, say 3-5 tons, is going to last an entire fight.

[J0anna]

As they stand now you have nothing to worry about, an extra heat sink will be more useful than any ATM. They are effectively slow moving, direct fire weapons. They have no arc to speak of so are stopped by anything breaking LOS. As others have pointed out, ams pretty much cancels them. They take the uselessness of streaks to a whole new level.

[Khobai]

Quote

As they stand now you have nothing to worry about, an extra heat sink will be more useful than any ATM. They are effectively slow moving, direct fire weapons. They have no arc to speak of so are stopped by anything breaking LOS. As others have pointed out, ams pretty much cancels them. They take the uselessness of streaks to a whole new level.

at least streaks do damage under 120m

[The6thMessenger]

My perfect range would be:

0m - 180m - 540m - 900m

No minimum range. The HE ammo is reflected between 0m - 180m. That way Streaks and SRMs still do better damage between 181m - 270m. And realistically it's hard to use such weapon system such close if you're ever only focusing to get 3 damage/missile.

[LordNothing]

video games are essentially made out of math. rendering, physics, gameplay, etc. one frame of gameplay probibly uses more math than you will need to do in your entire life.

[Andi Nagasia]

fat4eyes, on 02 July 2017 - 12:10 PM, said:

Fortunately noone takes AMS when I play, though that may change with ATMs. ATM 24 can take down the front arnor of an Atlas in 4-5 volleys. That's a big deal, especially for a lockon weapon. And to add to that they don't have much impulse, so getting hit with ATMs 'feels' like getting hit with LRMs but hurts a LOT more. People are more likely to ignore getting hit by ATMs than they will getting hit by streaks or srms, giving you more time to do damage.

well though no one in your matches had AMS we cant discount it, as not mattering,
we have to balance a weapon assuming Average circumstances, not Perfect circumstances,
such we can balance LRMs assuming that Cover Doesnt Exist as we would have a very weak weapon System,

though in the tests i just ran, it did take 5Volleys to strip an AS7s Front Armor, and 8Volleys to Kill it,
thats huge until you realize 5Volleys is 25seconds, and 8 is 40seconds, thats a long time to be in 270m range,
also ATMs are abit hot to where you really cant fire too much with other weapons as you'll over heat,

brawling wise ATMs are currently OK in the absence of AMS, but useless with AMS,
ATMs need to have SRM levels of Missile Health, or even 1.5x SRM missile health as to how slow they are,

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Andi Nagasia, on 02 July 2017 - 04:32 PM, said:

well though no one in your matches had AMS we cant discount it, as not mattering,
we have to balance a weapon assuming Average circumstances, not Perfect circumstances,
such we can balance LRMs assuming that Cover Doesnt Exist as we would have a very weak weapon System,

though in the tests i just ran, it did take 5Volleys to strip an AS7s Front Armor, and 8Volleys to Kill it,
thats huge until you realize 5Volleys is 25seconds, and 8 is 40seconds, thats a long time to be in 270m range,
also ATMs are abit hot to where you really cant fire too much with other weapons as you'll over heat,

brawling wise ATMs are currently OK in the absence of AMS, but useless with AMS,
ATMs need to have SRM levels of Missile Health, or even 1.5x SRM missile health as to how slow they are,

I think they could use a bit more velocity than LRMs....Imho...their velocity should fall somewhere between LRMs and Streaks.
This (plus extra missle health) would help with AMS (which PGI just buffed)...