23 replies to this topic

[JC Daxion]

Another one of those things I've been pondering as i played around on test. those ER Lasers are HOT! So it's kind of occurred to me that perhaps not every mech is just going to get the ER laser upgrades. Some mechs if i just did a strait up swap they basically became so hot they were just not playable.


But what about mix and match? It got me thinking as i was playing my Partisan. I'm gonna upgrade the AC to a UAC in one arm, But what if i just swapped the ML's in the other arm, to ERML's, which would then become much closer in range to the UAC, making them more compatible. And then keep my 4 CT lasers normal ML's which will help me run cooler, and be more of my brawler weapon.

I know a lot of folks mix pulse and normal lasers for various reasons, though often that is because of tonnage. But the whole heat thing makes me wonder if mixing ER and normal lasers will be one place that IS has an advantage over clans in the heat management department.

Thoughts?

[Skanderborg]

You pretty much covered it , its a trade of heat for range.

The most logical way to make it work is what we've been doing all along

Mix ER lasers with ballistics , namely the heatless gauss , or combine ER Lasers with the now cooler medium pulse laser / medium laser.

It sucks that the Inner Sphere is getting these ranged weapons that they definately need , but can't keep up with the heat with 3 slot DHS.

Edited by Skanderborg, 03 July 2017 - 03:08 PM.

[Humpday]

Yeah i found some of my retrofits way too hot, even after going to lfe + more dhs.

Definitely will be taking them on some builds but my warhammer 6D for example, thats not changing.

[Y E O N N E]

Clans have a laser for every bracket and a bracket for every laser.

Inner Sphere have lasers that sit in between all of those with nothing for extreme long and nothing for extreme short, though part of that has to do with lack of massive hard-point numbers and part of it is remedied with SRMs and/or quirks.

I would honestly suggest avoiding ER Larges on anything you don't intend to engage from very far away with. Use the standard Large or use the Large Pulse to save yourself 3 points of heat on the bread-and-butter 52-point laser vomit. If you know it's a map that makes closing distance easy, like Mining Collective and HPG, I would suggest retaining standard lasers. If you are running a Light, I would also still suggest retaining standard lasers unless it's on the heavy side, where I think they have sufficient cooling to go ER Medium; worth noting that ERSL and MPL pair together very well and ERSL aren't super hot, just hotter than SL.

[Khobai]

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Inner Sphere have lasers that sit in between all of those with nothing for extreme long and nothing for extreme short,

huh? IS has ERLL for long range which is every bit as good if not better than the clan version once quirks are factored in.

And for extreme short IS' options are really no worse than clans options once quirks are factored in.

Sure theyre not the best options for IS, but theyre still equal or better to what clans get for the same range bands. Clans have more types of lasers but most of them are garbage that arnt giving them any advantages. Even the CERML and CERSL dont even outrange their IS counterparts anymore which is BS.

Edited by Khobai, 03 July 2017 - 04:03 PM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Humpday, on 03 July 2017 - 03:15 PM, said:

Yeah i found some of my retrofits way too hot, even after going to lfe + more dhs.

Definitely will be taking them on some builds but my warhammer 6D for example, thats not changing.

I had the opposite thought, now all my weapons have the same (or close enough) optimal range, for the cost of 4.2 heat per volley. I'm still torn on my last 2 tons, though. Do I get back some of my engine rating (dropped from XL 340 to LFE 300)? Get a TC Mk II? Throw 2 DHS into my naked arm?

Further testing required...

[Brain Cancer]

If they manage to make heavy lasers a functional option, we'll have normal/pulse/ER for the IS and heavy/pulse/ER for the Clanners (plus microsized ER/pulse lasers).

[Jay Leon Hart]

Yeonne Greene, on 03 July 2017 - 03:24 PM, said:

worth noting that ERSL and MPL pair together very well and ERSL aren't super hot, just hotter than SL.

Huh, you know, I think you just found me a build for my FS9-A... so thanks

[Khobai]

what clans actually needed were ER pulses

[Jay Leon Hart]

Brain Cancer, on 03 July 2017 - 04:03 PM, said:

If they manage to make heavy lasers a functional option, we'll have normal/pulse/ER for the IS and heavy/pulse/ER for the Clanners (plus microsized ER/pulse lasers).

Does it bug anyone else there are no Heavy Micro Lasers?

Khobai, on 03 July 2017 - 04:04 PM, said:

what clans actually needed were ER pulses

I agree, so long as IS get their X-Pulse at the same time.

[Y E O N N E]

Jay Leon Hart, on 03 July 2017 - 04:03 PM, said:

Huh, you know, I think you just found me a build for my FS9-A... so thanks

6x ERSL + 2x MPL, yeh boooooi.

Was running with similar even before PTS.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Yeonne Greene, on 03 July 2017 - 04:10 PM, said:

6x ERSL + 2x MPL, yeh boooooi.

Was running with similar even before PTS.

Oh hell no! 4x MPL (arms), 4x ERSL (torso) - I need that sweet, sweet symmetry!

[Edit] Maybe on the FS9-K though, we'll see... [/Edit]

Edited by Jay Leon Hart, 03 July 2017 - 04:16 PM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 03 July 2017 - 04:04 PM, said:

what clans actually needed were ER pulses

Which generate like 2-3 more heat points and +1 crtislot for a 30-60 meter range boost. And the ERSPL is also heavier. And they're less accurate than normal pulse, which PGI might represent as slightly longer beam duration (like how they represented Heavy Laser inaccuracy).

ER Pulses are overrated.

[El Bandito]

FupDup, on 03 July 2017 - 04:36 PM, said:

Which generate like 2-3 more heat points and +1 crtislot for a 30-60 meter range boost. And the ERSPL is also heavier. And they're less accurate than normal pulse, which PGI might represent as slightly longer beam duration (like how they represented Heavy Laser inaccuracy).

ER Pulses are overrated.

Yep. I checked out Sarna for ER Pulse and they were mediocre. Regular Clan Pulse already have good range for average engagement. A lance of 8xCMPL EBJs are devastating.

[Khobai]

Quote

Which generate like 2-3 more heat points and +1 crtislot for a 30-60 meter range boost.

Except youre forgetting the CLPL had its max range nerfed significantly.

So if the CERLPL got its canon max range it would be far more than a 30-60 meter range boost.

CLPL = 600m optimum, 840m max

CERLPL = 690m optimum, 1380m max, for 2-3 extra heat

effectively youd be paying extra heat to remove the max range reduction. which is really the essence of ER vs non-ER weapons, more heat for more range.

so yeah ER pulses wouldve been awesome. instead clans got garbage heavy lasers. and micro lasers that are supposed to be for elementals/protomechs that dont even exist in the game.

Edited by Khobai, 03 July 2017 - 06:11 PM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 03 July 2017 - 06:06 PM, said:

Except youre forgetting the CLPL had its max range nerfed significantly.

So if the CERLPL got its canon max range it would be far more than a 30-60 meter range boost.

If you're looking for a long max range, you'd be better off with the newly buffed CERLL.

Enjoy your 13 heat per shot though.

Edited by FupDup, 03 July 2017 - 06:08 PM.

[Khobai]

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If you're looking for a long max range, you'd be better off with the newly buffed CERLL.

And yet Id much rather have a large pulse laser with ERLL range, than a CERLL.

the clan ER large pulse would give clans back their long range large pulse, but with the balance of additional heat.

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Enjoy your 13 heat per shot though.

because PGI has never lowered the heat on a weapon before.

given how many times PGI has altered heat on weapons compared to their tabletop versions, that is a weak argument and you know it.

especially when the CHLL is 17 heat lololol. id gladly take a new ER large pulse laser with 13 heat, long range, and short beam duration over a 17 heat laser, with short range, and long beam duration anyday. the CHLL is atrociously bad and practically anything else wouldve been better.

Edited by Khobai, 03 July 2017 - 06:21 PM.

[LT. HARDCASE]

Khobai, on 03 July 2017 - 04:04 PM, said:

what clans actually needed were ER pulses

Clan definitely don't "need" another class leading weapon system.

Jay Leon Hart, on 03 July 2017 - 04:06 PM, said:

I agree, so long as IS get their X-Pulse at the same time.

Who wants 14 heat for 9 damage, at 7 tons and 2 slots?

X-Pulse are trash.

[Khobai]

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Who wants 14 heat for 9 damage, at 7 tons and 2 slots?

X-Pulse are trash.

Their stats can be changed though.

If ER large lasers are 1 extra heat over large lasers for 50% more range

then X pulses could similarly be 1-2 extra heat over large pulses for 50% more range (probably a slightly longer beam duration/cooldown too)

PGI has changed stats on weapons many times before, why is it suddenly an impossibility for them to do so again?

Edited by Khobai, 03 July 2017 - 06:31 PM.

[El Bandito]

Khobai, on 03 July 2017 - 06:29 PM, said:

Their stats can be changed though.

If ER large lasers are 1 extra heat over large lasers for 50% more range

then X pulses could similarly be 1-2 extra heat over large pulses for 50% more range (probably a slightly longer beam duration/cooldown too)

PGI has changed stats on weapons many times before, why is it suddenly an impossibility for them to do so again?

Both of them werent in production. PGI doesnt touch such weapons. You are gonna need to lobby extra hard for those.