124 replies to this topic

[Goggles Paesano]

I don't know what you did to them in the last patch but this is insane! It now feels like every map is Polar or as I like to call it, Lurmageddon Hell.

Off the top of my head, a few things that can be done...

*Limit the amount of Lurm Boats per team

*Increase the loading time... the more LRMs the longer the loading time... For Example, maybe LRM20s have a 20 sec reload time while LRM 5s have a 5 sec reload time

*If 40 LRMs are shot, not all 40 of them have to hit. It would be logical that there would be a spread, even if the target is standing still.

*Make AMS more effective. Sometimes it doesn't seem like mine is doing anything at all.

Anyway, just my opinion. I now stand ready to receive the wrath of all those Lurm Boat pilots.

[El Bandito]

LRMs are one of the least efficient weapons, so more you opponents bring them, higher your chance of success.

LRM15 and LRM20 both have enough spread so some missiles can miss a stationary mech.

AMS is semi-effective, especially with Overload nodes. But you simply can't expect to put on a 1.5 ton worth of equipment to completely counter 20 tons worth of weapons. Unless that equipment is called ECM.

Edited by El Bandito, 04 July 2017 - 12:24 PM.

[naterist]

some tips from a guy who doesnt worry about lurms anymore. radar dep is useful. ams overload, also useful.

more useful still is looking up, finding tere the lrms are coming from while their still arcing towards you, and then moving perpendicularly to their direction of movement. often getting killed by lrms is a result of moving into the open (ALWAYS a bad idea) or not using the perpendicular movement. you can also just sit in cover while the guy wastes all his ammo.

as you go up in teir, you see lurmaggedon less often, since it is actually really easy to deter if you know the tricks, which are handily listed above

[FireStoat]

OP, as previously posted by others on the forum - Radar Deprivation 5/5 negates all levels of Target Decay AND instantly drops you from being targeted when you break LOS, rather than have the 2 seconds of 'drift' lock as if you had 0/0 radar derp and the attacker had 0/0 target decay.

This is a big deal. Some players will claim "I'm good enough to use cover so I don't have to waste points into sensor skills" and that's great for them. From my humble point of view, investing for the 5/5 radar derp neuters LRM's pretty darned hard. A lot of players have figured this out, and as Bandito mentioned above - if the enemy team has more LRM's than yours, the edge to winning the game is pretty much being handed to you.

[C E Dwyer]

NO !

Learn to duck and be aggressive

[Antares102]

(I like this GIF )

LRMs suck hard and do not need to be nerfed.
I am sorry to say it but git gud.

LRMs are just an annoyance and as soon as you know how to defeat them their efficiency is just a joke.

There are two important things you need to use to counter LRMs:

• Cover
  
• 100% RADAR derp

Edited by Antares102, 04 July 2017 - 11:50 AM.

[Ced Riggs]

Nah, you just need to git gud. LRMs are in a pitiful state, if anything, they need a buff in velocity, direct-fire performance, accuracy and spread. Sadly, 'taters like yourself and their incessant whine due to being unable to hug a wall/use Radar Derp/equip AMS/push an LRM boat, will keep LRMs in their sad existence.

[Paigan]

Awwww. It's so funny:
Every week, there is one "Lurms are crap" and one "Lurms are OP" thread.
Every week.
Hilarious.

My personal experience is:
IF the target is clueless, LRMs are devastating
IF the target is smart, LRMs are near useless.
IF used correctly (which is harder as it sounds. Spotters, teamwork, etc.), LRMs can be a tactically viable weapon. Denying the open field, etc.

All things considered, pretty balanced.

Which in turn means: all the LRM whiners are just clueless.

Edited by Paigan, 04 July 2017 - 11:58 AM.

[Funk1777]

I brought 6 friends into this game in the last month or two. As new players one of their biggest complaints was that in solo qp at t5 or whatever they get hit by so many lrm boats. Try being a new player and rushing across polar highlands against 4 missile boats. You really cant convince your missile boats or your snipers to rush with you so you are left with a few brawlers and midrange who may or may not help push at the same time. The vast majority of the time the 3 you manage to convince are dead before you get there. So the other option is to play the waiting game until play develops and that is horribly boring and you feel helpless watching your team get shot to hell.
This is the solo qp experience for a new player and it turns them off of the game. Dying before you are even in range to shoot hurts so they switch to longer range weapons and become a "sniper" or "lrmer" It doesnt help that on a new account these lrm friendly maps get voted in a lot.

Sometimes we run groups. We only have two "vets" in our circle of friends so its usually one t2 guy and a few t4/t5 that form a group and hit the group queue. Occasionally we do well. Almost always we run against t1 groups of people that live in this game and they either roll the other team or roll us. Explaining to these new guys that its ok if we get curb stomped because "hey thats a 5 man of the div A champs and hey look the 3rd place team is in there too" works a few times, but they quickly become aggravated and stop playing.

As I have seen 6 new players start this game fresh in the last 2 months and only 1 of them continues to play with any sort of regularity these are the 2 biggest contributing factors ruining the game for them, so I am told. Granted we are -WIN, the Wildly Inept Noobs, but it is kind of sad that these guys are decent to great gunners in other games and they arent even interested in this game due problems like these. I love this game but I cant convince new players to keep at it.

I did make a new account to try the new experience out and it wasnt bad for me, in fact I feel I did quite well but I hit t3 in no time and was running a night gyr with dual gauss+ a PPC so maybe that solved some of the issue for me. I feel like other vets would do the same thing and stomp the noobs and fail to notice the "new player experience" as the real noobs do.

Solutions?

If the group matching system took a while longer to launch us into a game but performed better in making more even group comps they would enjoy it more I think. I realize this would only function well at prime time, but it may help.

If Locks werent so easily transferred between players without some sort of special gear(TC,active probes, I dunno) The fact that a lrm boat can hide and new players cant have radar dep right away makes it a pain. Make it so missile lock takes a bit longer unless they have LOS or the target is narc'd. Some maps lack much in the way of cover mechanics and even triple ams doesnt do much against 3 lrm 60+ boats. Throw some bigger rocks in polar.

I dont know, I love playing this game every now and then but I just cant get my friends into it and these are their biggest complaints. As we all know player retention will help this game immensely as a larger player pool makes the grouping system more viable. In the meantime I will just keep playing PUBG with them as we have decent ratings there and they seem to have more fun and I will continue to be a guy in the solo qp in MWO.

[Asym]

WOW !

You don't see LRM mechwarriors saying:

" Let's NEFR LBX & UAC-20's so that their effective range is 50 meters with a max of 75 meters,,,,;" cause it takes ZERO gunnery skill and ZERO tactical sense for assault-brawling mechs to use them. After all, Assaults live in Crimson Tide's, HPG's and Mining's tunnels...... Walk in, get within 50 meters and them with the most wins..... Wow, genius level tacticians there...... HPG, Mining, HPG, Crimson, HPG, Crimsom, Mining; over and over again..........

And yet, dollars to donuts, that's where you ARE going to find assaults having a less than meaningful "face time" each and every match on those maps; while, the rest of us die ourside of the basment or tunnel....

NERF LRM"s??? Good Grief...............

[- World Eater -]

Mook, learn to take cover.

[Funk1777]

I have to add that most responses of "lrms are a joke and easy to avoid" are from people that always run in t1 groups. Hell in solo qp at my level they are a joke and easily ignored, but I rarely see polar and I play brawlers mostly. Of course they are a joke. The other day I blew the energy torso off a lrm KGC and just stood in front of it hiding and shooting its teamates.

Whenever I see an assault on my team loaded with lrms I just laugh and think what a waste of a mech. Its a shame they hide in the back so I cant even use their armor to get into brawl range.

The vast majority of the people that post here are vets and know that lrms suck and are easily countered on most maps. Lrm boats are easy kills(when you get around to it after killing the more dangerous people first).

The new player experience is very, very different.

I sadly had to tell my friends to fill in the sensor tree first and get the radar dep nodes. It does help a lot. I dont have it filled like that on most of my mechs but then I dont seem to see lrms and polar on so many maps.

Edited by Funk1777, 04 July 2017 - 12:23 PM.

[RestosIII]

Just gonna jump in and say what everyone else that understands this game and how to easily counter LRMs will say.

[Asym]

Ha !

Wait till Civil War and the HUGE assault classes become the rage. 4 LBX-20's etc, etc, etc..... 45 MPH tops.....

Look at the new assault class of mec's: the new skill tree lights.... Ton for ton, the most effective vehicles in MWO. Just about impossible to kill...........

MWO is going to end up like "Rock-and-Sock'em" robots where each team waddles up to each other and for the next 8 minutes, shoot the living crap out of each other at point blank ranges till one side runs out of ammor or they die.

That is the new PGI reality.... The era of a 3 dimensional battlespace, with real weapons performance is long gone..........

[Tarl Cabot]

Quote

*Make AMS more effective. Sometimes it doesn't seem like mine is doing anything at all.

Make sure it has not been toggled off.

I will not say git gud. What I will say do not camp-staying in one spot, be aggressive, use chat if not using VOIP, announce UAVs up, try to provide grid, arm mounted weapons toggle arm lock on/off and shoot them down. IF backing up, do not reverse straigh back but at an angle, so that if/when LOS is lost you do not have missiles hitting your legs.

Again, the team needs to be aggressive. IS LRMS does no damage under 180m, Clan LRM damage starts dropping off at 180m, doing less damage.

And those with friends trying out MWO. Private matches do not cost anything, no premium time is needed, put it to good use when something like this comes up.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 04 July 2017 - 12:47 PM.

[Davegt27]

OP I understand what your saying

I used to have these things called Radar Deprivation modules
I had a siit ton of those things
now I get to buy almost the same thing all over again

one more node on this Mech to get 20% Radar Dep

in real life I used to work on weapons system the AGM65 I took care of the aircraft side
and used to teach the weapons loaders how to fire up the training Mavericks
what a brutal weapon
any guided weapon is pretty brutal but no weapon has a 100% hit rate
that's why most TT games that implement them have what they call a probability look up tables
or what is the likely hood this weapon will hit given all the expressed factors
range, movement all that jazz

not sure how BT TT handled it maybe some BT guys could time in

anyways I sure LRMs will get nerfed

[Metus regem]

Seriously,

LRM's are the worst weapon system in the game with several hard counters....

Hard Cover:
Rocks and stuff

Ablative Cover:
Bigger mechs then you, Blue or Red teams

AMS:
Best used in groups of 2-3 with overload nodes

ECM:
This is a little Jesus box that is far more powerful here than it should be

Radar Deprivation:
Get these nodes to really mess with LRM boats.

Map knowledge and basic piloting skills:
These two go hand in hand, but are also the most powerful tools against LRM's, as LRM's are the only weapon system in the game that require your target to not be paying attention to what is going on around them.

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

IF the target is clueless, LRMs are devastating
IF the target is smart, LRMs are near useless.
IF used correctly (which is harder as it sounds. Spotters, teamwork, etc.), LRMs can be a tactically viable weapon. Denying the open field, etc.

Guess which one the OP is?

Quote

If 40 LRMs are shot, not all 40 of them have to hit. It would be logical that there would be a spread, even if the target is standing still.

Hint: LRMs already spread and will even miss with part of the salvo, especially larger launchers. Even on stationary targets. Never mind moving ones.

If you think LRMs are soul-crushingly good, wait till you actually see players who can aim direct-fire weapons...who will simply cut out your core in half the time since they don't spread damage liberally across the target.

[Metus regem]

Davegt27, on 04 July 2017 - 12:46 PM, said:

OP I understand what your saying

I used to have these things called Radar Deprivation modules
I had a siit ton of those things
now I get to buy almost the same thing all over again

one more node on this Mech to get 20% Radar Dep

in real life I used to work on weapons system the AGM65 I took care of the aircraft side
and used to teach the weapons loaders how to fire up the training Mavericks
what a brutal weapon
any guided weapon is pretty brutal but no weapon has a 100% hit rate
that's why most TT games that implement them have what they call a probability look up tables
or what is the likely hood this weapon will hit given all the expressed factors
range, movement all that jazz

not sure how BT TT handled it maybe some BT guys could time in

anyways I sure LRMs will get nerfed

Heh I could tell you stories about AGM 114's not even going off when they hit something... My gunner once launched a AGM 114 into a building to get some targets at the request of a ground team, missile went in, but no joy... we launched a second one and cleared out the floor....

Anyways as far as how BT handeld missiles, was simple, if you rolled a hit, you then went to the missile table to see how many of the missiles hit, with the average being 7 on 2d6...

LRM/20 averaged 12 missiles
LRM/15 averaged 9 missiles

Just to give a point of reference...

[Tarl Cabot]

Davegt27, on 04 July 2017 - 12:46 PM, said:

snip

not sure how BT TT handled it maybe some BT guys could time in

TT LRM was mostly LOS, roll for hit/miss for each system using gunnery skills, range to target modifier (short, med, long, T3 rules/extreme range), Attacker pace-walk/run/jump, heat, location interference (cover), whether target was immobile or how many hexes target covered + if jumping. Additional modifier for indirect fire.

Then 2D6 on how many missiles hit then that number is clustered into 5pts and roll to determine hit location .