Ok, so I'm still learning the game and I'm trying to figure out whats the difference between armor and structure.
Is it better to have one over the other? Are there benefits of one over the other? Are there a class of mechs one works on better than the other? Etc...
Anyway, thanks for the help and advice!
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7 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 08 July 2017 - 11:21 AM
Comparing it to a knight in shining armor
Structure would be like your mech's body
Armor would be just that, it's armor.
All of the components that make your mech work are strapped onto the structure.
The engine, the weapons, the cokpit, the gyro, all of it.
Once the armor over where they are located is gone, those components can be damaged and destroyed - but they have to go through the armor first.
Example - the HBK-4G has an AC20 mounted in the right torso.
Once the armor is gone on the right torso, the structure takes damage
Once the structure on that torso is gone, so is the torso (and the arm connected to it - and the AC20)
However, it is possible for the AC20 to be damaged and destroyed before the structure is, but leaving the torso (and arm attached)
Meaning that (in general) armor is more valuable than structure - but structure is what is needed to keep your mech running.
As a general rule, your structure value is half of what your potential armor value is on any given section.
Bigger mechs get more armor and more structure.
Quirks and the skill tree can give some mechs more though - my 25 ton MLX-D carries almost 50 points of armor on it's arm (a value normally only found on 80 ton mechs) Downside being the only thing on that arm is an cUAC2.
Structure would be like your mech's body
Armor would be just that, it's armor.
All of the components that make your mech work are strapped onto the structure.
The engine, the weapons, the cokpit, the gyro, all of it.
Once the armor over where they are located is gone, those components can be damaged and destroyed - but they have to go through the armor first.
Example - the HBK-4G has an AC20 mounted in the right torso.
Once the armor is gone on the right torso, the structure takes damage
Once the structure on that torso is gone, so is the torso (and the arm connected to it - and the AC20)
However, it is possible for the AC20 to be damaged and destroyed before the structure is, but leaving the torso (and arm attached)
Meaning that (in general) armor is more valuable than structure - but structure is what is needed to keep your mech running.
As a general rule, your structure value is half of what your potential armor value is on any given section.
Bigger mechs get more armor and more structure.
Quirks and the skill tree can give some mechs more though - my 25 ton MLX-D carries almost 50 points of armor on it's arm (a value normally only found on 80 ton mechs) Downside being the only thing on that arm is an cUAC2.
Edited by Wence the Wanderer, 08 July 2017 - 11:25 AM.
#3
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- The Guide
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Posted 08 July 2017 - 11:36 AM
In terms of the skill tree, the choice between one or the other is a matter of preference if your 'Mech has no quirks for either one. However if your Mech does have quirks for one, it is better to capitalize on it because quirks + skills (which are basically 'choose your own add on quirks') will stack.
Also to note, any "crit" damage that someone deals (which is what damages your equipment) is then tacked on as an additional 15% bonus damage to your structure. So when your structure is exposed, enemies are likely to do extra damage to you about 53% of the time (not an exact number), for example a hit from an Inner Sphere AC/20 would always do 20 damage against armor. But against your structure, there's a chance of it doing 23, 26 or 29 damage after damaging one or more pieces of internal equipment. It is worth noting that an AC/20 can instantly destroy up to 3 pieces of equipment (extremely rare) in a single blow.
Also to note, any "crit" damage that someone deals (which is what damages your equipment) is then tacked on as an additional 15% bonus damage to your structure. So when your structure is exposed, enemies are likely to do extra damage to you about 53% of the time (not an exact number), for example a hit from an Inner Sphere AC/20 would always do 20 damage against armor. But against your structure, there's a chance of it doing 23, 26 or 29 damage after damaging one or more pieces of internal equipment. It is worth noting that an AC/20 can instantly destroy up to 3 pieces of equipment (extremely rare) in a single blow.
#4
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- The Guide
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Posted 08 July 2017 - 11:45 AM
TheFixxer27, on 08 July 2017 - 11:10 AM, said:
Are there a class of mechs one works on better than the other? Etc...
This makes an interesting question. I've noticed that some mechs have "higher" percentage gains on the skill tree for armor or structure, while many mechs are equal.
(if say you can get 1.5% additional armor with one node, you could get 3.0% additional structure with a node. This is actually pretty even since armor is always double structure, both get the same amount of 'points' one way or the other).
(If the armor node times 2 does not equal the structure node, you've found one of the 'Mechs whose skill tree rests outside of the norm, and thus it's better to favor whichever one is ''the better deal."
This said, in general assault mechs favor more armor. You need to be able to tank as much as possible without the risk of losing your weapons as you will often lose them long before you die.
Mechs that are especially hot-running, such as energy-only mechs, out of the two (armor and structure) are better off with structure. This is because overheating and "overriding" to keep firing while hot will directly attack your structure. This could allow you a little 'play' room with exceptional amounts of heat or that critical moment where it's shoot or die.
#5
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- The Guide
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Posted 08 July 2017 - 11:51 AM
The likely next question is "STD" structure/armor versus "Endo Steel" structure and "Ferro" armor. The only difference is weight savings at the cost of internal space. Endo is blatantly better. If repair and rearm was still part of MWO (it hasn't been for 5 years), Endo Steel would be the high risk/reward option as repairing it was ungodly expensive, but the extra tonnage it affords was beyond worth the financial risk.
In the source material (Battletech), Endo-Steel is very hard to come by and some factions have Zero access to it, and if you didn't have any on hand to make repairs, your mech would have basically been mothballed and useless until you got some. Since fewer than 8 facilities in the entire Inner Sphere produces it, yeah... good luck. The Clans import it from their Strana Mechty (go beyond the map in Community Warfare to the North and zoom in, eventually -- and REALLY far away from the main map -- you'll find Strana Mechty. It takes about a year to get from there to the rear lines of the Clans, so that's a year to get more endo steel for their timber wolves. It really wasn't a good trade, hence why most Clan mechs sport Ferro instead.
There's no such repercussions in Mechwarrior Online, so always go Endo Steel before Ferro.
In the source material (Battletech), Endo-Steel is very hard to come by and some factions have Zero access to it, and if you didn't have any on hand to make repairs, your mech would have basically been mothballed and useless until you got some. Since fewer than 8 facilities in the entire Inner Sphere produces it, yeah... good luck. The Clans import it from their Strana Mechty (go beyond the map in Community Warfare to the North and zoom in, eventually -- and REALLY far away from the main map -- you'll find Strana Mechty. It takes about a year to get from there to the rear lines of the Clans, so that's a year to get more endo steel for their timber wolves. It really wasn't a good trade, hence why most Clan mechs sport Ferro instead.
There's no such repercussions in Mechwarrior Online, so always go Endo Steel before Ferro.
#6
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- Legendary Founder
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Posted 08 July 2017 - 11:57 AM
First and foremost difference is that you have about twice more armor than structure. I say "about" because mech quirks can additionally give either armor or structure, and because you can choose not to maximize armor in your loadout. We'll cover that in a bit.
There are two important things to remember ...
First is that armor can't be critted for extra damage, unlike structure.
Second is that as long as you have armor on a certain section of your mech, the equipment in said section can't be critted and destroyed either.
So in general it is better to have as much armor as possible.
However, maximizing armor isn't always the most beneficial. As mentioned, mech specific quirks may give additional armor or structure or both. Using this website you can check out quirks for all the mechs as well as other stats, equipment stats and experiment with builds in a virtual mechlab.
Since the implementation of the new skill tree there is a possibility to further increase both the amount of armor and structure via purchasing corresponding skill nodes from the 'survival' tree. Here or here you can find a skill tree simulator that'll allow you to easily figure out how best to spend your 91 potential skill nodes for each mech.
The thing to remember tho is that % of armor and structure increase via nodes is calculated based off total potential max armor and total structure your mech has with quirks. Thus, if your mech has armor quirks, you will benefit much more in terms of total health from armor nodes, and visa versa, mechs with structure quirks will benefit more from each structure node.
You can find some interesting research into it, like this for example. Basically as a rule of thumb ... without quirks, every mech under 85t benefits more from armor, every mech above 85t - from structure. But if mech does have quirks, as mentioned you benefit more from related skill nodes.
Other thing to consider is whether you need full armor on your mech. For example, a non-jumping heavy or assault mech rarely needs full armor on legs since they are rarely shot compared to a big torso. It doesn't mean you can completely strip leg armor tho, but it means you can strip off some of it in order to have more tonnage for weapons, engine etc. Stripping armor off from legs on mechs with jump jets however is a bad idea, due to legs being shot much more because of jumping, and due to legs taking damage when landing after said jumping.
Same sometimes goes for arms on mechs with builds that don't have arm weaponry. You can in many cases strip the armor off an empty arm completely, but keep in mind that even an empty arm can be used for shielding damage, thus the more armor you put on it, the more damage it can soak before enemies start damaging the important components.
How much exactly you can afford to strip from any location you should figure out yourself in the process of playing. Needless to say stripping armor off CT, RT and LT almost always is a bad idea.
Lastly, there is a question of distributing armor between front and rear torsoes. This is always a personal preference, but the general idea is usually that the more frontal armor you have the more time you can face the enemy, the more you can shoot him, etc. Ideally you don't need rear armor at all, higher tier players with good battlefield awareness tend to put 1-3 armor on the rear at best, but for a new player I would suggest having at least 4-6 rear armor on light mechs and up to 10-12 armor on assaults.
Regardless, I hope this helps. If you have any more specific questions or concerns, feel free to ask.
There are two important things to remember ...
First is that armor can't be critted for extra damage, unlike structure.
Second is that as long as you have armor on a certain section of your mech, the equipment in said section can't be critted and destroyed either.
So in general it is better to have as much armor as possible.
However, maximizing armor isn't always the most beneficial. As mentioned, mech specific quirks may give additional armor or structure or both. Using this website you can check out quirks for all the mechs as well as other stats, equipment stats and experiment with builds in a virtual mechlab.
Since the implementation of the new skill tree there is a possibility to further increase both the amount of armor and structure via purchasing corresponding skill nodes from the 'survival' tree. Here or here you can find a skill tree simulator that'll allow you to easily figure out how best to spend your 91 potential skill nodes for each mech.
The thing to remember tho is that % of armor and structure increase via nodes is calculated based off total potential max armor and total structure your mech has with quirks. Thus, if your mech has armor quirks, you will benefit much more in terms of total health from armor nodes, and visa versa, mechs with structure quirks will benefit more from each structure node.
You can find some interesting research into it, like this for example. Basically as a rule of thumb ... without quirks, every mech under 85t benefits more from armor, every mech above 85t - from structure. But if mech does have quirks, as mentioned you benefit more from related skill nodes.
Other thing to consider is whether you need full armor on your mech. For example, a non-jumping heavy or assault mech rarely needs full armor on legs since they are rarely shot compared to a big torso. It doesn't mean you can completely strip leg armor tho, but it means you can strip off some of it in order to have more tonnage for weapons, engine etc. Stripping armor off from legs on mechs with jump jets however is a bad idea, due to legs being shot much more because of jumping, and due to legs taking damage when landing after said jumping.
Same sometimes goes for arms on mechs with builds that don't have arm weaponry. You can in many cases strip the armor off an empty arm completely, but keep in mind that even an empty arm can be used for shielding damage, thus the more armor you put on it, the more damage it can soak before enemies start damaging the important components.
How much exactly you can afford to strip from any location you should figure out yourself in the process of playing. Needless to say stripping armor off CT, RT and LT almost always is a bad idea.
Lastly, there is a question of distributing armor between front and rear torsoes. This is always a personal preference, but the general idea is usually that the more frontal armor you have the more time you can face the enemy, the more you can shoot him, etc. Ideally you don't need rear armor at all, higher tier players with good battlefield awareness tend to put 1-3 armor on the rear at best, but for a new player I would suggest having at least 4-6 rear armor on light mechs and up to 10-12 armor on assaults.
Regardless, I hope this helps. If you have any more specific questions or concerns, feel free to ask.
#7
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- Overlord
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Posted 08 July 2017 - 01:29 PM
as several have already mentioned if the Mech does not have quirks for armor or structure most locations have half the max possible armor in structure.
On all Mechs the head gets 15 structure and can mount up-to 18 armor, so if you can do 34 points of damage to the head you will kill any Mech (baring armor/structure quirks/skills affecting the head), but the head tends to be by far the hardest componant to hit, it is usualy the biggest pane of "glass" for the cockpit, for example the Atlas head hitbox is the left eye.
As for which is better, while the armor is intact internal equipment cannot be damaged, so if I had the choice of 500 armor or 500 structure on a specific componant I would definately go for armor.
On all Mechs the head gets 15 structure and can mount up-to 18 armor, so if you can do 34 points of damage to the head you will kill any Mech (baring armor/structure quirks/skills affecting the head), but the head tends to be by far the hardest componant to hit, it is usualy the biggest pane of "glass" for the cockpit, for example the Atlas head hitbox is the left eye.
As for which is better, while the armor is intact internal equipment cannot be damaged, so if I had the choice of 500 armor or 500 structure on a specific componant I would definately go for armor.
#8
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- Philanthropist
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Posted 10 July 2017 - 09:27 AM
Wow! Thank you all for all that info! That's a great help and I really appreciate it!
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