55 replies to this topic

[Snazzy Dragon]

All you really need to make an atlas scary is an srm spread buff, LFE, and the magical ability for gauss rounds to ricochet back to the shooter.

That last bit is extremely unlikely though, so for now, I fear the night gyr more than I do the fatlas.

[Khobai]

Quote

All you really need to make an atlas scary is an srm spread buff, LFE, and the magical ability for gauss rounds to ricochet back to the shooter.

An SRM spread buff would be nice. I find SRMs to be a little weak right now compared to all the long range crap flying around.

[Koniving]

Tlords, on 09 July 2017 - 04:23 PM, said:

That's a terrifying site and something I'd love to see in this game. I'd be glad to swap 4 tons of engine size to achieve it.

Sadly this terrifying sight would just leave players to laugh and three shot it anyway.
Or they'd just go for the eyeball.


If you want an Atlas to be terrifying, take out those ****** doubles and throw in a LOT of singles.

[Vonbach]

The Atlas is dead let it lie. The 100 ton engine decouple killed 100 ton mechs stone dead.
Just let it go.

[MustrumRidcully]

RestosIII, on 09 July 2017 - 07:20 PM, said:

All the Atlas needs to make it properly scary is to re-add the glowing eyes. There, perfect killing machine for the IS again.

That is the most OP suggestion I read all day. I like it.

(OP is code for awesome, right?)

[Pjwned]

Tlords, on 09 July 2017 - 04:23 PM, said:

I have this dream of an Atlas being nigh un-killable. The master of the push. Blasted apart and still moving.

When PGI broke the board game rules of engines sizes being locked in, this allowed us to tweak our non-omni mechs to go faster or slower to further optimize our mechs. This set a precedence, that the board rules are not set in stone. So, what the here is my idea...

With the new skill tree, we can add structure to our mechs. This new structure should also give the option to add more armor, consistent with the rule of double the armor for the value of the internal structure. Yes, that's right.... add additional armor beyond the current max level. With an Atlas now having up to 25% more structure, this new structure should support being able to add 25% more armor..

With the current skill tree, the Atlas center torso would have 222 points of armor. The side torsos 166.

That's a terrifying site and something I'd love to see in this game. I'd be glad to swap 4 tons of engine size to achieve it.

Nah, that should be reserved for hardened armor or an added functionality of ferro fibrous armor instead.

Khobai, on 09 July 2017 - 04:39 PM, said:

I dont think we need more armor.

I do think all mechs could use about 20%-30% more internal structure though. If for no other reason than to make critical hits matter more.

Critical hits just dont matter at all because entire hit locations get destroyed way faster than the equipment inside them gets critted.

One possibility could be for standard structure to give a +20%-30% structure bonus.

Then there would be a reason to use standard structure over endo structure. Which would also make ferro fibrous way more useful.

That's why the critical hit mechanics need a lot more revisions, so that item HP is reduced for nearly everything (especially Clan tech) along with crit damage for most weapons, and then crit seeking weapons can actually rip components apart like they're supposed to.

It's also something that PGI said they wanted to work on but so far have miserably failed to get anything meaningful done about it.

[PhoenixFire55]

In order to make anything half-decent out of Atlas ... again ... you would be wise to start with getting rid of engine desync. Because having DireWolf/Kodiak and Atlas share the same torso twist ratios is ... truly ... fkn ... ret@rded.

[NiuqOteen]

Would be fun to see all all weapon damage cut in half for a week or two. (double ammo) A shift to dps over alpha and PPFLD. Maybe then they could stop buffing armor and internals on every other mech.

That might help make alot of the assaults scary again.

[Khobai]

Quote

That's why the critical hit mechanics need a lot more revisions, so that item HP is reduced for nearly everything (especially Clan tech)

Id still like to see a structure bonus for taking std structure over endo because it helps validate ferro fibrous as well

[Thorqemada]

Tarl Cabot, on 09 July 2017 - 06:31 PM, said:

OP, you are aware that Internal Structure, as well as Armor, is double that of stock TT settings?

An Atlas is only as good as the team it is dropping with. If an Atlas pushes by itself, it would not matter how many points of armor or structure it has, it will die as quickly.

Afaik doubling protection vlaues still makes not up for the multiple times higher damage output compared to the original TT values plus the ability to aim that at a single location for free.

Edited by Thorqemada, 10 July 2017 - 01:00 AM.

[HGAK47]

justcallme A S H, on 09 July 2017 - 07:32 PM, said:

If you can pilot an Atlas, get it into position - Nothing beats it, nothing. The Scorch can put up a fight but one proper Atlas volley and you've almost neutered it and the Scorch torso is easy picking. Even a Spirit Bear won't in a brawl (it does come close).

The problem with all the "lower tier" assaults is the same as any other weight class. PGI's self-made power creep. Higher Torso/Arm mounts, more hardpoints etc with each mech that does come out.

The only way to "fix" old mechs is to do what PGI have also stated they will not do - offensive quirks. Or give them more armour/structure to survive longer.

Man when the "Balance overlord" is worried about giving the Spider 5V more than the pathetic 2 Energy CT mounts.... you know its bad.

[HGAK47]

Vonbach, on 09 July 2017 - 08:57 PM, said:

The Atlas is dead let it lie. The 100 ton engine decouple killed 100 ton mechs stone dead.
Just let it go.

Its funny I now find that my King Crab is possibly my most maneuverable of all the 100 tonners I own. I still enjoying using the KDK 3 and SB from time to time but if people get up on your ****, that pig is so slow and unwiedly. Even the SB with its LOL masc.

On the flip side that Crab is just about agile enough to handle itself now! (With agility skillpoints)

[ShiftySWP and the Pleated Pants]

Vonbach, on 09 July 2017 - 08:57 PM, said:

The Atlas is dead let it lie. The 100 ton engine decouple killed 100 ton mechs stone dead.
Just let it go.

Uhhh.... nope.

A skilled up tank Atlas with a good pilot who can roll damage will cross 800-1000 meters of open terrain (at 60kph) against a Gauss/ac snipers and still have firepower to win a brawl.

The tank'y'ness of an Atlas is not how much armor it can hold. Its how much heat it can require an opposing force to use against it for a kill. If you lead a consolidated push with a tank Atlas, you will force between 3-4 mechs in the opposing line into over-ride and easy kills. Its not the brawl in the Atlas that wins a push... its the kill power behind it because it is almost always a focus target but it takes so much to be killed.

However, push in a F'Atlas alone... and your are toast every single time.

The rumors of the Atlas' demise are greatly exaggerated.

Edited by ShiftySWP and the Pleated Pants, 10 July 2017 - 02:32 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

justcallme A S H, on 09 July 2017 - 07:32 PM, said:

If you can pilot an Atlas, get it into position - Nothing beats it, nothing.

This guy disagrees ...

Not only do I find one-sided brawler better in nearly all scenarios, but lesser frontal profile makes pinpointing torsoes much harder than those of an Atlas. Plus you can always boost up alpha with additional four energy hardpoints, which given double-coolshots might not be such a bad idea.

Regardless, my main point stands. Atlas, SpiritBear, and all brawler variations of 85t+ mechs are dead due to engine desync.

ShiftySWP and the Pleated Pants, on 10 July 2017 - 02:30 AM, said:

A skilled up tank Atlas with a good pilot who can roll damage will cross 800-1000 meters of open terrain (at 60kph) against a Gauss/ac snipers and still have firepower to win a brawl.

^^^ And this guy gets the best joke of a month award.

[Tarl Cabot]

Thorqemada, on 10 July 2017 - 12:59 AM, said:

Afaik doubling protection vlaues still makes not up for the multiple times higher damage output compared to the original TT values plus the ability to aim that at a single location for free.

I failed to include that in my post, as it is part of the argument I make concerning PGI using the 3 engine crit rule for just the isXL, where is not a fully functioning engine crit system in place. Hai, but stock values did work in MPBT EGA and Solaris, and somewhat in MPBT 3025 but they had no mechlab.

And one of the primary reason for the double armor/structure is due to PGI reducing weapon cooldowns 50% or more, especially the longer range, harder hitting weapons after Friends/family voiced their concern it was taking too long for mechs to die...(chuckles)

At least doubling armor/structure was not the wrong thing to do, especially since MWO is now a 12vs12, but they were wrong in reducing the cooldowns like they did. And as noted elsewhere, the size of mechs are also a contributing factor.

[Brain Cancer]

New tech is going to be interesting for the Atlas.

LFE and the Ultra/20 come to mind, though the exchange is losing a few SRM tubes for the LFE. UAC/10 might be an option, but...

STD engine klunkers can experiment with HGauss instead of the standard autocannon as well.

Edited by Brain Cancer, 10 July 2017 - 03:43 AM.

[ShiftySWP and the Pleated Pants]

PhoenixFire55, on 10 July 2017 - 03:10 AM, said:

^^^ And this guy gets the best joke of a month award.

Laugh all you want. Its true. Seen it.

But who really gives a crap.... Here... how about this.... You win. You are right! Your opinion is the BEST and you are the SMARTEST! You win the Forum war for today!

See you in game when KCOM brawls your face off.

[razenWing]

Snowbluff, on 09 July 2017 - 07:04 PM, said:

New tech might help

Pretty much this. Theb33f got a build that's going around 2-shotting assault mechs at 400 meters. That's not scary?

Also, Atlas at its CURRENT form is scary enough by itself. Too many damn idiots waste heat and ammo tied down trying to down one while the rest of the enemy team mow your team down.

Only a few mechs really bug me when they appear... Atlas is one of them.

[Coolant]

The main thing is that it is slow. I understand it should be slow, good or bad, that's it's weakness. Might help to have a speed tweak quirk but those were removed.

[El Bandito]

razenWing, on 10 July 2017 - 06:05 AM, said:

Pretty much this. Theb33f got a build that's going around 2-shotting assault mechs at 400 meters. That's not scary?

Also, Atlas at its CURRENT form is scary enough by itself. Too many damn idiots waste heat and ammo tied down trying to down one while the rest of the enemy team mow your team down.

Only a few mechs really bug me when they appear... Atlas is one of them.

TBF, Beef's build is only markedly effective against Assaults--and the opponent didn't even try to twist. If I was piloting a Heavy that can go over 80 kph, I have no fear of this loadout at mid-range.

We will see once the weapons go live with their new numbers.

Edited by El Bandito, 10 July 2017 - 07:44 AM.