51 replies to this topic

[Mister Blastman]

Not sure about through armor crits. Would rather see 1.4 damage a pellet instead.

[Coolant]

sure im for having thru armor crits for LBX (but 10s only) or like the other thread increasing the damage.

[Koniving]

Spheroid, on 11 July 2017 - 12:02 AM, said:

Also why not make "component destruction" true to its name? Right now its body segment destruction not component destruction. If instead of rewarding the loss of a limb why not breakdown the section into its constitute parts? A leg consists of the hip, upper leg actuator, lower actuator, foot actuator and up to two slots for equipment. If these components were individually scored albeit at a lesser amount than leg destruction the results would be indentical had you simply blown it off with a large caliber weapon.

I've tried pitching this in the past. It would also do miracles in the anti-alpha strike and IS XL departments, too. I called it the sub hitbox system.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Nobody is going to use the LBX-2 and LBX-5 unless there's an advantage to doing so. You're going to see people scrape up the extra tons for an LBX-10 instead.

The fix would be to boost the rate of fire of those two rifles to provide closer to the DPS per ton as an equivalent amount of SRM's. Slightly less DPS, more investment of tonnage, but rapid fire splat at longer ranges? You'd see people using them.

[Khobai]

Quote

Also why not make "component destruction" true to its name? Right now its body segment destruction not component destruction. If instead of rewarding the loss of a limb why not breakdown the section into its constitute parts? A leg consists of the hip, upper leg actuator, lower actuator, foot actuator and up to two slots for equipment. If these components were individually scored albeit at a lesser amount than leg destruction the results would be indentical had you simply blown it off with a large caliber weapon.

Well you cant do that without a proper crit system. The first step is fixing the crit system. After that you can add more detail to it by having subcomponents.

Quote

Nobody is going to use the LBX-2 and LBX-5 unless there's an advantage to doing so.

Those weapons are just always going to be be worse options than the LBX-10

The only real use of those weapons even in battletech is shooting down aircraft. Because they have pretty long range and can hit aircraft across the board and I believe cluster rounds get a bonus against VTOLs.

So I mean if there were npc aircraft in MWO then you could give certain weapons an anti-aircraft trait. I cant think of any other way to make those weapons viable. I mean the LBX-2 is just awful you cant ever fix it in the capacity where it will be good against other mechs.

Edited by Khobai, 11 July 2017 - 10:41 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Khobai, on 11 July 2017 - 10:36 AM, said:

Those weapons are just always going to be be worse options than the LBX-10

The only real use of those weapons even in battletech is shooting down aircraft. Because they have pretty long range and can hit aircraft across the board and I believe cluster rounds get a bonus against VTOLs.

So I mean if there were npc aircraft in MWO then you could give certain weapons an anti-aircraft trait. I cant think of any other way to make those weapons viable. I mean the LBX-2 is just awful you cant ever fix it in the capacity where it will be good against other mechs.

Right. So they'll either be completely unused, or PGI will have to buff their cooldown to where they have such a rate of fire that they're attractive to certain builds.

[MustrumRidcully]

Regarding crits, I would suggest a completely different system than they have now, really.

Every [base structure at location]/12 points of damage a location takes, you "lose" one crit slot. Which slot is determined randomly from all undamaged slots.

• Empty Slot: Nothing Happens
  
• Structure Slot: You take some additional structure damage, Say, [structure at location]/24. (This could trigger additional critical hits, getting you basically half the damage needed for another crit)
  
• Armor Slot: You take some armor damage, which either transfers from the rear to the front or vice versa (torso sections only), or to another section. If no more sections or sides with armor exists that the damage could be transferred to, treat this as structure slot damage. (Damage might be the same as for structure hits)
  
• One-Slot Item: Item is disabled. Ammo has a chance to trigger an explosion (10 % chance currently?)
  
• Multi-Slot Item: First crit degrades the item (+50 %, +50 % cooldown for weapons, -50 % heat sink dissipation; In addition for Explosive Item: 25 % explosion chance), if the item is explosive. Second Crit disables the item for good. (Explosive Items: 50 % explosion chance)

Weapons that are considered to be particularly effective against structure deal extra damage to structure. If we want certain items to be ineffective against structure, they might deal less damage against structure. (Which might generally be an interesting mechanic if some weapons were less effective against structure than against armor, say, Gauss are less effective against structure because they tend to go cleanly through the weaker material, while MGs and even Autocannon rounds tend to tumble around in the interior having more chances to wreak havoc).


No more need to track item health, and there is a clear and inevitable item degradation as you lose structure. RNG is a lot less prominent. Effects of critical hits are reasonably predictable.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 11 July 2017 - 11:55 AM.

[Skanderborg]

https://www.shooting...he-math-stupid/

This is an article to demonstrate how effective normal 12g shotguns are compared to other pistols/rifles.

Wish they could translate something like this into the game with stopping power.

[Athom83]

Skanderborg, on 11 July 2017 - 01:16 PM, said:

https://www.shooting...he-math-stupid/
This is an article to demonstrate how effective normal 12g shotguns are compared to other pistols/rifles.
Wish they could translate something like this into the game with stopping power.

A 12G shotgun has a bore of around ~18.5mm. Standard pistols and rifles shoot 5-9mm. Even a .50cal is only 12.7mm. So, to do a fair comparison, compare the shotgun to a 20mm anti-tank rifle. https://youtu.be/BOFDHX22nh4?t=4m

[Antares102]

Oh missed that. Made my own thread about increasing LBX pellet damage:
https://mwomercs.com...amage-part-deux
but I like this idea a lot as well.

+1

Mister Blastman, on 11 July 2017 - 06:55 AM, said:

Not sure about through armor crits. Would rather see 1.4 damage a pellet instead.

Thats what my thread proposes.

[Brain Cancer]

If we have a system that ignores crits, we may as well eliminate the difference between armor and structure and just give it one HP value. Screw the game it's based on, right? I mean, if you shot the guts out of a tank the armor was removed from, SURELY it'd function in near tip-top shape until utterly destroyed, RIGHT?

No. LB-X will be actually worth something when they ream out unarmored sections on hits. Not through-armor criticals.

Remove all bonus damage to structure for crits. Increase pellet damage per hit to equipment up to 5. Someone pointing an LB-20X at your de-armored component should be a fond farewell to anything functional remaining after the pellets turn it into a metallic Swiss cheese, because it wasn't going to be very efficient at de-armoring you before that, because LOL SPREAD. It won't be supereffective at destroying the section, but everything in it can get hosed.

And then get to actually modeling engine, gyro, actuator, and sensor damage like the game supposedly should have had years ago.

Edited by Brain Cancer, 11 July 2017 - 02:13 PM.

[Skanderborg]

Brain Cancer, on 11 July 2017 - 02:12 PM, said:

If we have a system that ignores crits, we may as well eliminate the difference between armor and structure and just give it one HP value. Screw the game it's based on, right? I mean, if you shot the guts out of a tank the armor was removed from, SURELY it'd function in near tip-top shape until utterly destroyed, RIGHT?

No. LB-X will be actually worth something when they ream out unarmored sections on hits. Not through-armor criticals.

Remove all bonus damage to structure for crits. Increase pellet damage per hit to equipment up to 5. Someone pointing an LB-20X at your de-armored component should be a fond farewell to anything functional remaining after the pellets turn it into a metallic Swiss cheese, because it wasn't going to be very efficient at de-armoring you before that, because LOL SPREAD. It won't be supereffective at destroying the section, but everything in it can get hosed.

And then get to actually modeling engine, gyro, actuator, and sensor damage like the game supposedly should have had years ago.

It would make a lot of sense just making it a killing blow weapon , with extreme damage to internals that isn't based off of RNG.