10 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

MWO has come a long way, and now we have the Civil War tech to look forward to, which is just several days from now. (July 14)

PGI had their PTS, showing off what they did, like the streaks, lbx, and uacs that long have been furthering the divide between IS - Clan balance. Light engine -- though it's not as weight-saving as the IS-XL, it still saves much weight, but capable of 1 torso lost as the clan XL engine.

I'm much more stoked with the ER Lasers more than anything -- the C-ERML had been a staple of mid-range engagement cause of it's decent output relative to it's weight, over a certain range, the IS-ERML would also give the IS their own cheap light-weight mid-range tool.

There were cool stuffs, but then there were also those that needs work.

The Rotary ACs for example, not as powerful equivalent to the unhealthy amount of stare invested in it, but then we also get a random maximum amount of stare which just aggrevates the weapon. I really would just want it to be that archetypal FPS machine gun that overheats and stall when fired for too long, and then we can just shoot it after waiting for it to cooldown.

The ATM is stricken with Minimum Range, that totally defeats the point of the weapon as it is on TT. It also has a arguably too powerful close-range damage, and too weak long-range damage. I think 2.4/2.0/1.6 damage at close/mid/long range should do it, and not have a minimum range while at it.

The Rocket Launchers that can one-shot people by suicidal trolls. They should have just made it that each weapon only shoot one powerful rocket at once, at a really fast recycle time like a pseudo AC, with 10/15/20 shots depending on the weapon, that can't be replenished by 1-crit 1-ton ammo stuff.

The Heavy Gauss that's nothing but for novelty -- i would rather use UAC20, because at the short range of 180m, i'd rather not have the gauss charge and the insane amount of cooldown at such close range, they should increase it to at least 270m-1350m. That reticle shake is also really really really disturbing, they should have not done that but just kept the screen shake cause it's already hampering aim as it is.

The Light Gauss had bad cooldown of 5.00s - though addressed with the changes into 3.75s cooldown, i still find it hard to pick over the AC10. After all the AC10 does 200 damage ammo/ton -- the switch not only reduces my DPS but also the maximum damage i could do. I also want to see the cooldown reduced to 3.00s to 3.25s, cause DPS just sucks horribly i couldn't justify it over the AC10.

LB20x kind of sucks, because of the increased crit size, at the disadvantage of spreading damage. We (I) use the LB10x less because of the shotgun function with crit bonuses per pellet, rather i value that 1-less ton and 1-less crit space from the AC10. The LB20x does not have that, so i find it hard to pick over the AC20 or even UAC20.

...

Make no mistake, I love the new tech. But PTS have passed, and the major game update is coming. Where are the patch notes?

Edited by The6thMessenger, 13 July 2017 - 10:42 PM.

[davoodoo]

What you dont think that fafnir will be amazing at brawl?? But seriously 400m minimum, 20 dmg bomb strapped to your side wont ever work below 180m where everything is pinpoint.

rac- ghost heat at 4 for both, have it jam exactly as it hits red. I cant remember damage and dps numbers but i remember rac needed improvement in performance too.

light gauss - limit at 4, 3s cooldown, no charge.

hppc- 10 tons, 4 crits, i see no reason for spread damage especially that it will still be 30ppfld(just like dual gauss) at very high heat, minimum range and relatively low velocity. Oh and it also got 66.67% more weigh compared to cerppc, so 50% more dmg is just fair isnt it?

lbx's are lbx's you cant fix those without changing how they function or emulating function change

atm's - remove minimum range, flatten trajectory, increase velocity. No really i see no reason for atm12 to not do 5.14 dmg per ton at 270m while srms do 8 at better spread even without artemis at 400 velocity.

mrms - 1/4th of their ptr spread...they already have huge drawbacks, like low velocity, burst fire.and high heat.

heavy lasers - er burn time, 6/4/2 ghost heat limits for smalls/mediums/larges.

machineguns - would need to see more.

lppc - limit at very least 4, imo 6(and raise ppc to 3 ffs)

I have no complaints for rest of the stuff.

Edited by davoodoo, 13 July 2017 - 04:24 PM.

[MechaBattler]

Knowing PGI, they're still trying to iron out everything. We'll likely still see the odd number typo that will make a weapon briefly broken or OP.

But at this point I doubt they'll make changes till after it goes live. Except for serious bug issues.

Edited by MechaBattler, 13 July 2017 - 04:32 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

davoodoo, on 13 July 2017 - 04:09 PM, said:

rac- ghost heat at 4 for both, have it jam exactly as it hits red. I cant remember damage and dps numbers but i remember rac needed improvement in performance too.

Yes, like the typical FPS MG, like those emplaced weapons on COD.

The6thMessenger, on 02 July 2017 - 04:14 AM, said:

Spoiler

Quote

General Changes:

- RACs Jam 100% when Jam Meter is filled.
- RACs do not fill Jam Meter while spinning, only while shooting.
- RACs Jam Meter does not go down until Spin-Down is achieved.
- RACs having shot, don't need to spin-up, until Spin-Down is completed. During which they could still shoot without needing to spin-up.
- Always during operation, the weapon generate heat. Be it during spin-up, spin-down, or firing, it will generate heat. Like Stealth Armor.

Quote

RAC2:

Damage/shot: 0.80
Projectile Speed: 2000
Shots/Sec: 10.00
Burst DPS: 8.00
Total Damage/Burst: 40
Total Shots/Burst: 50
Spin-Up Time: 0.50s
Spin-Down Time: 0.50s
Burst Duration: 5.00s
Jam Dissipation: 4.00s
Jam Duration: 4.00s
EDPS: 4.00

Quote

RAC5:

Damage/shot: 1.25
Projectile Speed: 1650
Shots/Sec: 8.00
Burst DPS: 10.00
Total Damage/Burst: 50
Total Shots/burst: 40
Spin-Up Time: 0.50s
Spin-Down Time: 0.50s
Burst Duration: 5.00s
Jam Dissipation: 4.00s
Jam Duration: 4.00s
EDPS: 5.00

To define our new values, lets start:

EDPS = Effective DPS, the dps of the weapon once the Jam sequence is taken account.
Burst Duration = How long can the weapon shoot continuously before Jamming.
Jam Duration = How long the weapon cannot be fired.
Jam Dissipation = How long the meter is cleared at full - that means if the gauge is completely filled and at some form of magic does not jam, it would take 4.0s for the meter to be cleared.

The purpose of Jam Dissipation is to illustrate how fast the gauge is cleared. And with the Burst Duration at 5s, but the Jam Dissipation at 4.0s - WTF? The6thMessenger? Wouldn't that mean they could just not fill the jam meter completely, let it dissipate a few and then shoot again?

Well supposed that we only used up 2.5s or half of our total damage/burst, doing 20 for the RAC2 and 25 for the RAC5? It would take 2.00s for the jam meter to be cleared + 0.50s of spin-down time + 0.50s of spinup time for the next flurry. RAC2 doing only 20 damage, that is 3.636363636363636 EDPS. The RAC5, doing 25 damage, only does 4.545454545454545 EDPS.

You know what that means? To maximize EDPS you really need to use the weapon at it's fullest extent, else just stopping midway just penalizes yourself.

How about the spin-up? That short, and not filling the gauge when spinning up, wouldn't that make spin-up time useless? People could just practice preemptively spinning it up, or macroing it to do so. And what about poking?

I wouldn't worry about poking, it's only mostly effective if you can do a most of your damage, a lot of damage, at the shortest amount of time to minimize damage being received. Not only you're preemptively building up heat without doing damage as you maintain the spin-up time, you also need to stare enemies at an idiotic amount of time which is really just bad. To put that into perspective, the RAC5 needs 1.5s of stare time to do 15 damage, when a gauss rifle could do it in an instant it hits. That means that 1.5s from a gauss rifle to stare could be used for cover, either armor rolling or side shielding, or just hiding back into cover. So really, doing so wouldn't be that efficient, so i wouldn't worry about it.

Here's a different take for the RAC system.

If you're interested, here's an RAC/10.

Spoiler

Quote

RAC10:

Tons: 14
Range: 360m
Damage/shot: 2.50
Projectile Speed: 1150
Shots/Sec: 6.00
Burst DPS: 15.00
Total Damage/Burst: 75
Total Shots/burst: 30
Spin-Up Time: 0.50s
Spin-Down Time: 0.50s
Burst Duration: 5.00s
Jam Dissipation: 4.00s
Jam Duration: 4.00s
EDPS: 7.50

davoodoo, on 13 July 2017 - 04:09 PM, said:

hppc- 10 tons, 4 crits, i see no reason for spread damage especially that it will still be 30ppfld(just like dual gauss) at very high heat, minimum range and relatively low velocity. Oh and it also got 66.67% more weigh compared to cerppc, so 50% more dmg is just fair isnt it?

Yeah, 10 tons at such a weak damage, lol.

davoodoo, on 13 July 2017 - 04:09 PM, said:

lbx's are lbx's you cant fix those without changing how they function or emulating function change

I'm actually okay with their performance, but just not worth the tonnage and crit-slots they have. LB20X should be -1 ton and -1 crit slot from the AC20 if it would ever be a useful pick at all.

davoodoo, on 13 July 2017 - 04:09 PM, said:

atm's - remove minimum range, flatten trajectory, increase velocity. No really i see no reason for atm12 to not do 5.14 dmg per ton at 270m while srms do 8 at better spread even without artemis at 400 velocity.

To be fair, ATM3 does 9 damage close range, while SRM6 does 12.9. But considering that it has longer range as opposed of the SRMs, i find that to be kind of ok already damage. Unfortunately, the ATMs could just go far far heavier. So i think damage should be at 2.4/2.0/1.6 dmg.

davoodoo, on 13 July 2017 - 04:09 PM, said:

lppc - limit at very least 4, imo 6(and raise ppc to 3 ffs)

A PPC could do 10 damage, that means it would take 2 LPPC to match 1 PPC. However consider that 1 PPC is 7 tons, and 1 LPPC is 3 tons, that means to match a 7 ton would only mean 6 tons. That means PPCs would be less of a choice, if they have more hardpoints to use.

No, just no. What about 3 GH limit?

Edited by The6thMessenger, 13 July 2017 - 09:46 PM.

[BrunoSSace]

New tech we will not know untill it drops. Then we can complain. Im highly doubt full of patch notes.

[Y E O N N E]

BrunoSSace, on 13 July 2017 - 09:32 PM, said:

New tech we will not know untill it drops. Then we can complain. Im highly doubt full of patch notes.

I mean, I think we have a fairly solid idea already thanks to the PTS. I'm not expecting any radical changes, even though a few of the items could really use some.

[The6thMessenger]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 July 2017 - 09:43 PM, said:

I mean, I think we have a fairly solid idea already thanks to the PTS. I'm not expecting any radical changes, even though a few of the items could really use some.

If the community is correct, we really should see the bugs from the PTS to the live game, and call them as "features".

God damn, PGI. Please don't screw this up, you don't have to reinvent the god-damn wheel with the RAC, just stick to the archetypal overheating MG. A simple reading of TV Tropes: Overheating should give adequate idea of how it should work.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 13 July 2017 - 09:52 PM.

[NiuqOteen]

Rocket launcher need to be a DPS weapon not an alpha weapon somehow.

Heavy Large laser needs a bit of heat shaved off to see any use at all.

RAC impact particle effect probably needs toned down as it is large and overly blinding.
RAC 2 may need a little more damage at 2 tons less and half the damage of the rac5. Or more range / Velocity

Edited by NiuqOteen, 13 July 2017 - 09:59 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

NiuqOteen, on 13 July 2017 - 09:57 PM, said:

RAC impact particle effect probably needs toned down as it is large and overly blinding.

I'm actually even surprised why the RAC projectiles looks as big as AC10 to AC20's projectile, with the same explosion. You would've thought that PGI used AC2 projectile and explosion to the RAC2, and the AC5 projectile and explosion for the RAC5.

Hope they fix that too.

[DAYLEET]

NiuqOteen, on 13 July 2017 - 09:57 PM, said:

Rocket launcher need to be a DPS weapon not an alpha weapon somehow.

Heavy Large laser needs a bit of heat shaved off to see any use at all.

RAC impact particle effect probably needs toned down as it is large and overly blinding.
RAC 2 may need a little more damage at 2 tons less and half the damage of the rac5. Or more range / Velocity

I think its so you cant be super accurate easily when using it. It wasnt blinding to be shot by one so think its by design.

[El Bandito]

The6thMessenger, on 13 July 2017 - 10:00 PM, said:

I'm actually even surprised why the RAC projectiles looks as big as AC10 to AC20's projectile, with the same explosion. You would've thought that PGI used AC2 projectile and explosion to the RAC2, and the AC5 projectile and explosion for the RAC5.

In MWO LRM5 has just as much of an impact and shake as LRM20. Go figure. All PGI have to do is to change some numbers in XML sheet but no.