54 replies to this topic

[Wiley Coyote]

So two Atlai and an Annihilator walk into the HPG basement...

[TheArisen]

You compare its height but not it's width to the Atlas's. If you look at them head on the Atlas is substantially wider.

[VorpalMechBunny]

I pre-ordered the base pack of this mech because it seemed just too damn cool despite assuming roughly the same speed/size issues as the DWF. That said if this mech piles on additional weaknesses then there is something wrong here. I will reserve judgement until release and/or some better info on the hitboxes, but the combination of geometry and hardpoint positions though has me really worried that this will either be a full-on dud mech, significantly favor the reinforcement/hero mechs, or both.


Stuff I hope isn't quite as bad as it looks, or could be tweaked:

1) Very tall and vulnerable head and center, also well above most weapons.
2) Arms are very low. Art preview looked much more favorable. This shape looks bad for both firing and shielding.
3) CT hardpoints: sure hope that if using only 1 it fills the high mount first?


1P and MB now look stronger than the others, making some use of high mounts and MB getting a bit of neck protection. The 1E now looks like epic trash and would need insane quirk adjustment to compensate. 1A/2A might be OK but some depends on height of 2nd ST ballistics.


I really hope they rescale the height (of the mech or a few bits of maps) if turns turns out it's not possible to get in essential areas like the the top platform of HPG. While they were at it, maybe the arms could be adjusted to be at least not quite this bad... This mech is already a walking focus target but it shouldn't be suffering much more than the more than a DWF. If the pure height is a lore issue then make the tweaks on the maps which aren't

[ScreamingSkull]

YourSaviorLegion, on 14 July 2017 - 09:12 AM, said:

I don't give a hoot about lore... game balance is what matters.

The don't buy it ydb.

[Muriel Steiner]

So what if the Annihilator is "one of the tallest mechs".. Many of the 'mechs in the game are known as some of the tallest 'mechs in battletech and they are all shorter in MWO than this model of the annihilator. (See Atlas, Madcat, Marauder IIc).

I can't give source material for this (which is why I went looking it up, apparently there's a lot of conflicting 'mech size stats out there,), but I had always heard that the Atlas was specifically designed to be the biggest, baddest , most intimidating 'mech out there. I looked at about 6 different 'mech size lists at this point and not one of them listed annihilator as being among the top five biggest 'mechs. While the Atlas wasn't always said to be the tallest, it was at least represented on most of those lists. My inclination is to say that there's absolutely nothing I've seen in lore to justify the Annihilator being bigger than the atlas, however, I also have to admit that lore often seems vague and conflicts with itself when it comes to 'mech size, so I guess we really shouldn't be offended by the mech size from a lore perspective. (And let's face it, much of what PGI does has nothing to do with lore anyway.. I don't recall any such thing as hardpoints in tabletop. Meanwhile, those little letters in the 'mechs seriel number are supposed to have something to do with which factions use which 'mechs. meh.. whatev's though.)

The real issue here, like it or not, must be an issue of game balance and playability. The simple fact is, even without the 'mech being taller than an atlas, there are several questionable qualities about the 'mech. It has a bulbous torso and thin arms which could see it suffering from stalker-itus, It's weapon mounts don't appear to be placed much better than the King Crab's. Now throw in that periscoped piloting compartment just begging for people to shoot it off. Even if people have trouble hitting the periscope (and I'm relatively sure annihilators won't get many more head hits than other 'mechs.), that periscope sticking up will allow enemies to target the 'mech, making it easy to rain missles down on this 'mech.. and where will the slow moving annihilator go for cover? Well apparently it isn't going to go anywhere at all. Now I know some of you are thinking "finally, an assault 'mech that encourages players to do some armor sharing.", but the easily foreseen tragic fate of annihilators isn't "armor sharing" because most annihilators won't be able to get close enough to a fight to take any heat off anybody. Either the Annihilator will spend all of it's time keeping it's head down so that it doesn't get assassinated, thereby having to take indirect routes to the fight, so the fight will be over by the time the annihilator gets there.. OR the annihilator will have to throw caution to the wind and poke it's head above cover that other 'mechs could have hidden behind, thereby getting itself killed before it ever really gets into a fight.

Let's face it though.. this is PGI we're talking about.. with a newly released 'mech.. for all we know the hit boxes on this thing will be so messed up that the periscope won't even collide with anything.. it'll probably just stick up through those platforms.. whatever though. we'll just have see how things work out.

[Mechwarrior4670152]

TheArisen, on 14 July 2017 - 06:40 PM, said:

You compare its height but not it's width to the Atlas's. If you look at them head on the Atlas is substantially wider.

Oh come on now! EVERYONE knows the only thing that matters for 'size' is height!

[Mechwarrior4670152]

Muriel Steiner, on 15 July 2017 - 09:15 PM, said:

Many of the 'mechs in the game are known as some of the tallest 'mechs in battletech and they are all shorter in MWO than this model of the annihilator. (See Atlas, Madcat, Marauder IIc).

All of which were also known to be shorter than the Annihilator as well

Timberwolf was known as a tall mech, but one of the tallest? Not to my knowledge
Similarly, the Atlas was known as 'big', but I know plenty of 'big' guys that are well under 6 foot. Height and size are not the same thing, regardless of what the average poster would have you believe.

...I cannot comment on the MAD-IIC, I only really know that one from Mech2, and there wasn't much lore on the mechs in that game.

[Xetelian]

Really shouldn't be that tall, sad really.

[Khobai]

Quote

You compare its height but not it's width to the Atlas's. If you look at them head on the Atlas is substantially wider.

Thats still not saying much since the annihilator is more than wide enough to make it an easy target

Its like saying one barn is wider than another barn. but the reality is theyre both barns and youre not going to miss a barn when you shoot at it.

And I think the Atlas has it far worse than the annihilator when it comes to cresting hills. At least the annihilator has some high mounted hardpoints. the Atlas has zero. And since it also has atlas level structure quirks I think the annihilator is definitely going to be better than the Atlas overall. Still no where near Kodiak level but at least it wont be the worst 100 ton assault mech in the game.

Edited by Khobai, 15 July 2017 - 09:59 PM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

original BT a 2 Level Building giving all mechs full Cover ...thats araund 12m ,in Original Atlas the Tallest mech with 16m now we have 20m Sized Mechs ,absed of a Magical Volumetric Calculation with 2D paperdoll Models of a Dice (most parts in every View by this covered from other Parts) for not real Models, tahts only build only by artistic view...with Weapon models and Parts very different from Factorys ..the only real Size Factor is the Pilot and the Cockpit size! now we have Dwarf Pilots in locust and Giant Pilots in Assaults and heavys in Heavys like black knight or Dwarf Cockpit in a Cougar with a enormous Size for its Class...each Artisthase his own View of the Mechs ...to many differnt Views by same Weight..seeing old Arts fom the Marauder ...from the robotech ,over project phoenix , to MWO...more thinny or more bulky , longer arms or shorter ...Ac canon Bulky or mor like the Original

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 15 July 2017 - 11:51 PM.

[ImperialKnight]

it's not so much too tall as ALL the weapons are considered low slung due to the cockpit position. you're going to poke up and have all your weapons hit the dirt only to get head shot cause the only exposed part is your cockpit.

[C E Dwyer]

nitra, on 14 July 2017 - 10:15 AM, said:

You do not go sticking a tool of this magnitude under a bridge. With impetus you become the flaming sword to sunder thine enemy, their emasculated hulls crushed by your dominating presence...

Henceforth the name Annihilator.

A mech of such terrible magnificence does not belong under a bridge.

It will want to when the LURMS fly towards it

[Weeny Machine]

It gets the Wolfhound treatment.

[Mechwarrior4670152]

Xetelian, on 15 July 2017 - 09:53 PM, said:

Really shouldn't be that tall, sad really.

Okay.

Why not.