29 replies to this topic

[Yellonet]

*sigh* most people replying didn't read/understand the OP it seems.

[Brain Cancer]

Why would LRM boats be in a position to be fired on?

Because otherwise, you're launching on maximum spread, as Artemis doesn't function without LOS. IDF is the least efficient method of using my limited munitions. Not that LRMs can't be used in IDF only, but they're even suckier than usual if all you do is hide.

Worse, IDF relies on parasitic lockons. If your spotter has his head forced down, your missiles de-lock and eat dirt. Accuracy is also at it's worst when you're relying on others (barring NARC, which is literally made for getting around this.).

Third, the LRM boat has to be close enough or his missiles have so much lag time the target has ample time to get out of LOS/find cover. This means he's either close enough to be shot at, or too far to hit you worth beans.

The lumtato lobbing salvos 500m behind everything else going "locks plz" is already massively degrading his damage potential. Failure to direct fire degrades damage. Relying on other people's locks degrades accuracy, which also degrades damage (because misses = zero damage). Hiding in distant cover does the same thing, only worse because it adds longer flight times.

A good missile boat is exposing himself at least long enough to get a clean sight line before firing, if at all possible. Force them to the point of nothing but indirect mode and you have an enemy with less accuracy and weaker hits.

[o0m9]

The largest reason LRMs get anything done is timid pubbies. Had a game yesterday where our assaults refused to walk 200m into their minimum range while the enemy team was split and everyone took way more damage than they had any need to. Herding a charge out of three timid assaults who aren't even long range fit is enough to make me pull my hair out.

[Red Shrike]

Throwing my opinion out there, Polar isn't bad. Heck, on my personal scale of 1 to 10, Polar ranks as an 8 whereas Grim would rank as a 5. While both tend to devolve into stagnant games of back and forth (See Figure 1.), Polar allows for much more flanking than Grim and thus the ratio of long-range to poke to brawl is a lot more 33-33-33 than other maps.

Spoiler

Fig 1.

Yellonet, on 14 July 2017 - 08:51 AM, said:

- "Just push the lurmer!"

Sure, that works well against a single opponent, but any half-decent lurmer will stay with his team mates to have protection, so as soon as you go forward to try and punish the lurmer his team will most likely focus you and you'll be dead in seconds. Besides, most lurmers seem to be using clan mechs which will keep doing damage even up close, and maybe more importantly shake your screen making it more difficult to roll damage and aim well.

Get the 11 other mechwarriors on your team to push as well?

Edited by Red Shrike, 14 July 2017 - 03:06 PM.

[Paigan]

Yellonet, on 14 July 2017 - 08:51 AM, said:

The bad maps are.

Worst of the lot, obviously Polar Highlands. I just don't know what they were thinking when designing this horrible piece of... map.

The middle - where most pugs are always heading, no matter if they have to or not - is the area where there's basically no adequate cover at all.

[...]

Are you saying one must be able to win even without the slightest bit of intelligence?
Then you're definitely in the wrong game.

Anyone who runs into the center without a very good oversight of the tactical situation DESERVES to be killed and lose.
Almost "MUST" lose if tactics are to mean anything.

Anyone who builds a pure short-range-viable brawler build and gambles/hopes for the best is also bound to lose if his gamble fails. That's not the map's fault. It's the gambler's fault.

Everyone who doesn't want to use their brain at least a little bit shouldn't be here.
And that is exactely why Polar Highlands is one of the BEST maps.

Edited by Paigan, 14 July 2017 - 03:10 PM.

[MajorLeeHung]

El Bandito, on 14 July 2017 - 10:17 AM, said:

Out of 15 QP maps, only 2 are clearly LRM friendly. Something to keep in mind.

Yeah damn it 2 maps are LRM friendly! DOWN WITH PGI!

[Yellonet]

Paigan, on 14 July 2017 - 03:05 PM, said:

Are you saying one must be able to win even without the slightest bit of intelligence?
Then you're definitely in the wrong game.

Anyone who runs into the center without a very good oversight of the tactical situation DESERVES to be killed and lose.
Almost "MUST" lose if tactics are to mean anything.

Anyone who builds a pure short-range-viable brawler build and gambles/hopes for the best is also bound to lose if his gamble fails. That's not the map's fault. It's the gambler's fault.

Everyone who doesn't want to use their brain at least a little bit shouldn't be here.
And that is exactely why Polar Highlands is one of the BEST maps.

It's pretty easy to say "don't bring short range builds" when you play clans. On IS side you have to give up a lot on many mechs to get any good range.

But my point still stands, I don't think it's good game design to let players change their mechs and the punish them for their choices.

Edited by Yellonet, 14 July 2017 - 03:20 PM.

[Mystere]

Yellonet, on 14 July 2017 - 03:18 PM, said:

It's pretty easy to say "don't bring short range builds" when you play clans. On IS side you have to give up a lot on many mechs to get any good range.

But my point still stands, I don't think it's good game design to let players change their mechs and the punish them for their choices.

You keep talking about "good/bad game design". Please tell everyone the authoritative books and chapters.

Edited by Mystere, 14 July 2017 - 04:06 PM.

[Pjwned]

The only excuse for getting annihilated by LRMs on polar whinelands is if you get NARCed, and even then that's not a great excuse since you shouldn't get hit by NARC.

If LRMs are a problem in any other situation then it means that it's time to git gud.

Yellonet, on 14 July 2017 - 03:18 PM, said:

It's pretty easy to say "don't bring short range builds" when you play clans. On IS side you have to give up a lot on many mechs to get any good range.

But my point still stands, I don't think it's good game design to let players change their mechs and the punish them for their choices.

If it's a problem for you then build more well-rounded mechs with more speed and/or more mixed weapons for short and long range.

I play specialized builds too and sometimes get owned for it, but I'm not bitching on the forums about it when I bring my 2 C-ERLL KFX-C and get owned by enemy light mechs because I was in a bad position.

Edited by Pjwned, 14 July 2017 - 05:51 PM.

[AssaultPig]

it's dumb that some maps favor all long-range all the time; polar highlands is the worst offender but alpine is quite bad in this regard also.

but 'polar is a **** map' is a horse nearly as dead as 'lrms', so I don't really feel the need to rant more about it