15 replies to this topic

[kapusta11]

Apparently, one less pellet is so OP that being 2-3 ton heavier weapon is not enough, you have to cut its range.

Edited by kapusta11, 15 July 2017 - 12:52 AM.

[Dee Eight]

And boost the range of the regular IS AC/5 (which is supposed to be 540m max with a 90 minimum).

[Y E O N N E]

[Y E O N N E]

This thread needs a bump, because this is important.

PGI, you can't make me want to take standard ACs by pushing UACs down closer to their level. The extra DPS of the UAC is far and away more valuable than the single slugs. If you want to incentivize the use of standard ACs, you need to give them more of a role. Higher velocity and range than UACs would be one way to do that.

[kapusta11]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 July 2017 - 09:58 AM, said:

This thread needs a bump, because this is important.

Sadly, balance is irrelevant at this point. It's all about looking at "whining tryhards" and chewing popcorn. MWO forums once again show their true colors.

[Angel of Annihilation]

kapusta11, on 15 July 2017 - 12:51 AM, said:

Apparently, one less pellet is so OP that being 2-3 ton heavier weapon is not enough, you have to cut its range.

Actually I found the IS UAC/10 and UAC/20 to be extremely powerful. More powerful in fact than the Clan's Variants. That one less pellet doesn't seem like much until you realize just how much more concentrated a IS UAC burst is compared to the Clan UAC burst. It was just much, much easier to get your damage to go where intended with the IS UAC.

Also when your getting hit by a IS UAC, you have much less time to react to getting hit. With Clan UACs, you could usually twist about 1/2 way through their burst, with the IS UACs, that one less pellet meant that by the time I recognized I was taking fire from a UAC, I rare had time to complete a twist to spread the damage.

I honestly felt that the IS UACs might actually be OP because of this but I really want to see how they stand up in a normal match before taking this stance.

[Y E O N N E]

Viktor Drake, on 15 July 2017 - 10:25 AM, said:

Actually I found the IS UAC/10 and UAC/20 to be extremely powerful. More powerful in fact than the Clan's Variants. That one less pellet doesn't seem like much until you realize just how much more concentrated a IS UAC burst is compared to the Clan UAC burst. It was just much, much easier to get your damage to go where intended with the IS UAC.

My issue isn't really that the UAC needs its range. It's more that the AC/10 is a mediocre weapon and, instead of bringing it up to some useful role, they push the UAC down to try and keep it appealing. The AC/10 is only useful on 'Mechs that have upwards of 20% velocity and usually bonus range, like the RFL-3N and CPLT-K2, otherwise it just lobs softballs at a distance that is just outside brawling range. There wouldn't have been so many tears over Clan PPFLD if the AC/10 had the range and velocity to pair with PPCs, but it doesn't. Instead you had to drop 4 more tons on a pair of AC/5, which restricted mobility and durability.

[Ced Riggs]

MechWarrior:Online is not a tabletop game played in the 1980s, more news at eleven, stay tuned.

[MustrumRidcully]

I would focus on buffing the regular ACs and the LBX. I have the feeling the UAC will do fine.

I'd probably buff the regular ACs with a higher range and fanster projectile speed. Give AC/5 the same velocity as AC/2s, and AC/20s the same as the AC/10. That will make it easier to mix AC/2 with AC/5 and the AC/10 with the AC/20 and open up a new build options. The ranges might still be different, but you can now use the same lead for the pairings. That would be a great usability buff.

And the LBX, I would simply raise the damage per pellet. Start modest, with something like 10 %. Maybe ignore the LBX-10 for now, since it's actually smaller and lighter than the regular AC counterpart.

[Y E O N N E]

MustrumRidcully, on 15 July 2017 - 11:02 AM, said:

And the LBX, I would simply raise the damage per pellet. Start modest, with something like 10 %. Maybe ignore the LBX-10 for now, since it's actually smaller and lighter than the regular AC counterpart.

That's the funny part.

For short range, you take the LB-10X because the resource savings are worth more than the PPFLD.
For mid-range on up, you just go all-in on PPCs because the range and velocity are worth more than the lower heat and higher DPS. Or you'll just go with UAC/10.

The AC/10 has no strong role without quirks. There are better options on either side.

[MustrumRidcully]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 July 2017 - 11:05 AM, said:

That's the funny part.

For short range, you take the LB-10X because the resource savings are worth more than the PPFLD.
For mid-range on up, you just go all-in on PPCs because the range and velocity are worth more than the lower heat and higher DPS. Or you'll just go with UAC/10.

The AC/10 has no strong role without quirks. There are better options on either side.

Doesn't really seem funny, just the unfortunate way it is. The range and weight of the AC/10 leaves it in a position where it's not particularly useful for anything.



Here an even different take:
AC/2: Speed 2000; Optimal Range 850
AC/5: Speed 1,150; Optimal Range 600
AC/10: Speed 2000; Optimal Range 450
AC/20: Speed 1,150; Optimal Range 270

With this settings, AC/20 and AC/5 make a decent pairing due to their simar projectile speed, and the same for the AC/2 and the AC/10.

The AC/10 is now basically a lighter and lower damage Gauss Rifle from the speed perspective, but thanks to its cooldown its DPS is better, while the low range still doesn't make it a fully fledged sniper weapon - though it will be more precise.

Of course, this will probably leave the Light Gauss Rifle in a ditch, giving the last stats we've seen on that particular weapon...

EDIT: Oops, apparently I looked into the wrong column for the AC/5 projectile speed.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 15 July 2017 - 12:36 PM.

[Tlords]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 July 2017 - 09:58 AM, said:

This thread needs a bump, because this is important.

If you want to incentivize the use of standard ACs, you need to give them more of a role. Higher velocity and range than UACs would be one way to do that.

Amen brother!

[FupDup]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 July 2017 - 09:58 AM, said:

This thread needs a bump, because this is important.

PGI, you can't make me want to take standard ACs by pushing UACs down closer to their level. The extra DPS of the UAC is far and away more valuable than the single slugs. If you want to incentivize the use of standard ACs, you need to give them more of a role. Higher velocity and range than UACs would be one way to do that.

PGI's "global aggregate" says that standard ACs are performing equal to everything else though, bruh.

MustrumRidcully, on 15 July 2017 - 11:29 AM, said:

AC/5: Speed 950; Optimal Range 600

Yup, because the AC/5 is so massively overpowered that it needs to have the velocity of a brawling weapon...

[Khobai]

I agree that standard autocannons need more range and velocity than ultra autocannons.

However I also would like to see ultra autocannnons changed completely so they no longer jam at all. Instead they would simply do less damage per shot than ACs, at a higher rate of fire (higher dps), higher heat, and lower range/velocity.

For example:

AC20 = 20 damage, 4.0 cooldown (5dps), 6 heat, 360m range, 850m/s velocity.
UAC20 = 6.66 damage, 1.02 cooldown (6.5dps), 1.8 heat, 270m range, 650m/s velocity and no longer jams at all

AC10 = 10 damage, 2.5 cooldown (4 dps), 3 heat, 540m range, 1150m/s velocity.
UAC10 = 5 damage, 0.96 cooldown (5.2 dps), 1.5 heat, 450m range, 950m/s velocity and no longer jams at all

AC5 = 5 damage, 1.66 cooldown (3 dps), 1 heat, 720m range, 1375m/s velocity.
UAC5 = 2.5 damage, 0.64 cooldown (3.9 dps), 0.6 heat, 600m range, 1150m/s velocity and no longer jams at all

UACs almost never jam in tabletop so why should they jam all the time in MWO? Its just not in the spirit of the weapon.

Quote

Of course, this will probably leave the Light Gauss Rifle in a ditch, giving the last stats we've seen on that particular weapon...

It will always been in a ditch as long as it has chargeup. Same with the heavy gauss. chargeup has gotta be removed from all gauss rifles. those weapons will never be viable otherwise.

Edited by Khobai, 15 July 2017 - 12:19 PM.

[davoodoo]

Viktor Drake, on 15 July 2017 - 10:25 AM, said:

Actually I found the IS UAC/10 and UAC/20 to be extremely powerful. More powerful in fact than the Clan's Variants. That one less pellet doesn't seem like much until you realize just how much more concentrated a IS UAC burst is compared to the Clan UAC burst. It was just much, much easier to get your damage to go where intended with the IS UAC.

Also when your getting hit by a IS UAC, you have much less time to react to getting hit. With Clan UACs, you could usually twist about 1/2 way through their burst, with the IS UACs, that one less pellet meant that by the time I recognized I was taking fire from a UAC, I rare had time to complete a twist to spread the damage.

I honestly felt that the IS UACs might actually be OP because of this but I really want to see how they stand up in a normal match before taking this stance.

I mean sure, if difference was something like ermed and hmed.

But youre talking around 0.05s difference...

Edited by davoodoo, 15 July 2017 - 11:54 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

FupDup, on 15 July 2017 - 11:42 AM, said:

PGI's "global aggregate" says that standard ACs are performing equal to everything else though, bruh.


Yup, because the AC/5 is so massively overpowered that it needs to have the velocity of a brawling weapon...

I looked up the projectile speeds on smurfy, but I probably ended up in the wrong row for the AC/5 speed. The order of the ACs is a bit chaotic.

Never mind the exact numbers, basic idea is:
AC/2 and AC/10 share one projectile speed (Raising the AC10 projectile speed) and the AC/2 and AC/10 gets a range boost.
AC/5 and AC/20 share one projectile speed (Raising the AC20 projectile Speed) and the AC/5 gets a range boost.