71 replies to this topic

[PiVoR]

Clans become so booring compared to IS with this patch, ATMs suck, Heavy lasers are just.. another lasers, nothing ballistic really, and this MC MK2 that everyone is too embarassed to use.
I was just about to sell all IS mechs, thank good i didnt do that.

[Kangarad]

that MC MK2 can do scorch builds or kdk3 builds like 2uac5/2uac 10 or mixes , ive seen atleast one game where a MC MK2-B had 1700+ damage tho I haven't done so myself since I know how to aim hurr.

ATM's only suck if you are in a slow mech and lurming with em from a distance.

and heavylasers are hot and good on hardpoint starved mechs but suck when boated with more lasers but great with such low heat things like Gauss or LBX.

[chucklesMuch]

Lol. Mc mk ii loOKs/moves.... well dat animation...but thankfully i dont see myself whilst I'm enjoying piloting one.

I haven't really used ATM's much (only on a cougar so far), though they don't seem all that good - maybe I'm missing something... Heavy lasers look more promising, im liking them more than I thought would..

[HGAK47]

I will agree that ATM`s suck. Im really not a missile user much anyway but they did absolutly nothing for me, seemed a bit hot and a bit too heavy with weak damage output potential.

Perhaps if used right or on a certain mech or a certain way they could be fairly good but thats really not my feeling of them.

I quite like heavy lasers though, I expected worse than we actually got with them. They have a place I think. Granted its not particularly anything new in terms of toys to play with.

Edited by HGAK47, 19 July 2017 - 02:03 PM.

[davoodoo]

Actually i found atms to be better than in pts, now just remove minimal range and theyll get permament spot in my builds.

On the other hand heavy lasers are a joke, not because of heat, but because of ridiculous cd.

Edited by davoodoo, 19 July 2017 - 02:05 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

PiVoR, on 19 July 2017 - 01:46 PM, said:

Clans become so booring compared to IS with this patch, ATMs suck, Heavy lasers are just.. another lasers, nothing ballistic really, and this MC MK2 that everyone is too embarassed to use.
I was just about to sell all IS mechs, thank good i didnt do that.

My problem is that they have gotten so hot to run that they aren't fun anymore. I have no idea what possessed Chris to add even more heat to Clan go to weapons like the ER SL and ER ML when the Clans are already excessively hot running machines despite the amount of DHS some can mount. What is worse, my lighter mechs got hit hard by this because unlike a Marauder IIC or some such, they don't have the tonnage to mount enough DHS to cool these weapons at an acceptable rate now. I mean loaded one of my Mad Cat Mk IIs with 2 x Gauss, 4 x ER ML and 2 x ATM6 using 16 DHS. The Gauss Rifles don't produce heat so you would think 16 DHS would be able to handle 4 x ER ML and 2 x ATM6 but nope, I can get off about 2 volleys before I am looking at heat issues. That is just insane. Now I think that once I get a 91 point build on the Mech and make sure I take all Heat Dissipation, Heat Gen and Heat Capacity nodes I will be fine but it is a bit unreasonable to have to invest like 60-70 points just to run 4 x ER ML and 2 x ATM 6.

[Gas Guzzler]

Viktor Drake, on 19 July 2017 - 02:12 PM, said:

My problem is that they have gotten so hot to run that they aren't fun anymore. I have no idea what possessed Chris to add even more heat to Clan go to weapons like the ER SL and ER ML when the Clans are already excessively hot running machines despite the amount of DHS some can mount. What is worse, my lighter mechs got hit hard by this because unlike a Marauder IIC or some such, they don't have the tonnage to mount enough DHS to cool these weapons at an acceptable rate now. I mean loaded one of my Mad Cat Mk IIs with 2 x Gauss, 4 x ER ML and 2 x ATM6 using 16 DHS. The Gauss Rifles don't produce heat so you would think 16 DHS would be able to handle 4 x ER ML and 2 x ATM6 but nope, I can get off about 2 volleys before I am looking at heat issues. That is just insane. Now I think that once I get a 91 point build on the Mech and make sure I take all Heat Dissipation, Heat Gen and Heat Capacity nodes I will be fine but it is a bit unreasonable to have to invest like 60-70 points just to run 4 x ER ML and 2 x ATM 6.

Cougar, 6 ERML, 1 HLL, 19 DHS Can pump out 102 damage without shutting down if you fire ER MLs on cooldown.

[Khobai]

You should keep playing Clans. Theres tons of stuff to look forward too like repeated nerfs, lack of options, embittered vindictive IS players, and your homeworlds being invaded.

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Actually i found atms to be better than in pts, now just remove minimal range and theyll get permament spot in my builds.

On the other hand heavy lasers are a joke, not because of heat, but because of ridiculous cd.

Im ALL for removing ATM min range but you cant leave them at 3 damage if you do that.

Instead of 3/2/1 theyd have to be changed to 2.4/2/1.6 to still be worse than SRMs at under 270m. But that would also make them better at long range on the few maps that allow that (but still not better than LRMs)

I also think their health needs to be increased to 1.5 per missile so they can survive AMS better.


And I agree Heavy Laser cooldown is too long but also their heat is a little too high. And microlasers are just goofy what was the point.

Edited by Khobai, 19 July 2017 - 02:25 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 19 July 2017 - 02:18 PM, said:

And I agree Heavy Laser cooldown is too long but also their heat is a little too high. And microlasers are just goofy what was the point.

Yeah I wouldn't mind lower cooldown and lower heat heavy lasers...

[Grus]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 July 2017 - 02:24 PM, said:

Yeah I wouldn't mind lower cooldown and lower heat heavy lasers...

He dosnt mind because of rac's lol

[Gas Guzzler]

Grus, on 19 July 2017 - 02:33 PM, said:

He dosnt mind because of rac's lol

RACs are kind of meh. Mostly just commenting on my experience running the HLLs last night. The cooldown is really... long. Running a tad cooler wouldn't be so bad considering the duration and range deficiency compared to cLPLs.

[Ultimax]

Don't sweat it, I have benched the entire game right now. 180+ mechs.

[davoodoo]

Khobai, on 19 July 2017 - 02:18 PM, said:

Im ALL for removing ATM min range but you cant leave them at 3 damage if you do that.

I can...
Why wouldnt i??

same as mrm they are inferior to same tonnage of srm and if i remember right you seen no problem with mrm...

mrm40=12 tons
4x srm6=12 tons
mrm40=40dmg
4x srm6=51.6dmg
51.6/40=1.29

atm12=7tons
4x srm6=6 tons
srm4=1 ton
atm12=36dmg
4x srm6 + srm4=56dmg
56/36=1.55

so yeah if atm cant be 3 dmg at point blank then mrm should get nerf too, especially that unlike atm they dont even lose dmg at medium range...

Edited by davoodoo, 19 July 2017 - 02:48 PM.

[Skanderborg]

I feel like ATM's are best served on fast mediums so they can keep within the 3 damage range bracket.

[Khobai]

Heavy lasers are almost there it wouldnt take much.

HLL decrease cooldown from 5.75 to 5.5, decrease heat from 16 -> 15
HML decrease cooldown from 5 to 4.75, decrease heat from 8 -> 7.5
HSL decrease cooldown by 4 to 3.75, decrease heat from 4.75 -> 3.9

Quote

same as mrm they are inferior to same tonnage of srm and if i remember right you seen no problem with mrm...

so yeah if atm cant be 3 dmg at point blank then mrm should get nerf too, especially that unlike atm they dont even lose dmg at medium range...

I dont follow that logic. MRMs arnt lockon weapons, they have awkward volley fire mechanics, they have way worse spread, worse range, they cant be boated as much as ATMs, and theyre way more tonnage than ATMs. So thats why im fine with MRMs. MRMs really have nothing in common with ATMs, its not a good basis for comparison.

Besides the reason ATMs cant do 3 damage at point blank range has nothing to do with MRMS and everything to do with the fact it would make CSRMs obsolete. Its about keeping CSRMs useful.

MRMs dont make ISSRMs useless. Nor should ATMs make CSRMs useless if their min range is removed. So the only way for that to work is to lower the damage. Lower short range damage in exchange for no min range, higher long range damage, and a missile health increase is a good tradeoff IMO.

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atm12=7tons
4x srm6=6 tons
srm4=1 ton
atm12=36dmg
4x srm6 + srm4=56dmg
56/36=1.55

The issue isnt tonnage its hardpoints. With 4 hardpoints, you can take x4 ATM9s and do 108 damage. But x4 SRM6s only do 48 damage. No clan mech has enough hardpoints to let you take enough CSRMs to do the same damage as boated ATMs. Combine that with all the other advantages of ATMs like being able to lockon and being useful at longer ranges and theres just no reason to ever use CSRMs again.

Edited by Khobai, 19 July 2017 - 03:05 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 19 July 2017 - 02:49 PM, said:

Heavy lasers are almost there it wouldnt take much.

HLL decrease cooldown from 5.75 to 5.5, decrease heat from 16 -> 15
HML decrease cooldown from 5 to 4.75, decrease heat from 8 -> 7.5
HSL decrease cooldown by 4 to 3.75, decrease heat from 4.75 -> 3.9

I'm onboard with these changes.

[davoodoo]

Khobai, on 19 July 2017 - 02:49 PM, said:

I dont follow that logic. MRMs arnt lockon weapons, they have way worse spread, and theyre way more tonnage than ATMs.

The reason ATMs cant do 3 damage at point blank range has nothing to do with MRMS and everything to do with the fact it would make CSRMs obsolete. Its about keeping CSRMs useful.

MRMs dont make SRMs useless. Nor should ATMs make SRMs useless if their min range is removed. So the only way for that to work is to lower the damage.

Since when is lockon an advantage below 270m??

by the same logic mrm will make issrm obsolete and ive provided numbers for that claim...
csrm have 1.55times higher damage per ton than atms while issrm only 1.22 times higher damage per ton than mrm, therefore mrm is more likely to obslete srm than atms even if both are very unlikely to obsolete srm to begin with...

Edited by davoodoo, 19 July 2017 - 02:58 PM.

[Valdarion Silarius]

PiVoR, on 19 July 2017 - 01:46 PM, said:

Clans become so booring compared to IS with this patch, ATMs suck, Heavy lasers are just.. another lasers, nothing ballistic really, and this MC MK2 that everyone is too embarassed to use.
I was just about to sell all IS mechs, thank good i didnt do that.

This is why I wish HAGs were a thing in the civil war tech update. The equivalent of the IS RAC's while adding something unique for the clan side. Plus it would have opened up the door for many more future mech variants that could be added for the clanners as well. Oh well, maybe next year if we are lucky.

[Gas Guzzler]

Arnold The Governator, on 19 July 2017 - 03:00 PM, said:

This is why I wish HAGs were a thing in the civil war tech update. The equivalent of the IS RAC's while adding something unique for the clan side. Plus it would have opened up the door for many more future mech variants that could be added for the clanners as well. Oh well, maybe next year if we are lucky.

Would HAGs be like a Gauss LBX or a Gauss Rotary AC? That's something that hasn't been clear to me.

[Khobai]

Quote

by the same logic mrm will make issrm obsolete and ive provided numbers for that claim...

MRMs dont make ISSRMs obsolete for reasons ive already elucidated on. MRMs are super awkward and clumsy weapons compared to SRMs. Whereas ATMs would pretty much be a straight improvement on SRMs if they had no min range.

Quote

Would HAGs be like a Gauss LBX or a Gauss Rotary AC? That's something that hasn't been clear to me.

I imagine HAG would be like Gauss CUAC that fired cluster rounds. It would fire in bursts but each burst would be like an LBX cluster lol.

HAGs definitely wouldve been a funny weapon I wish they added them.

Quote

The equivalent of the IS RAC's while adding something unique for the clan side.

Clans shouldve gotten their versions of the RACs. There was no reason to hold them back from us.

If I recall the clan versions are identical except they take up two more crit slots in exchange for 50% better range. In MWO that would likely translate to lower dps too.

Edited by Khobai, 19 July 2017 - 03:19 PM.