83 replies to this topic

[oldradagast]

W A R K H A N, on 23 July 2017 - 03:48 AM, said:

So many Qp softees in here

So, we're "softies" because we are only interested in playing fast, reasonably balanced games where people of most any skill level can participate? Oh, the horror - a game mode that is straightforward, approachable, and fun! We can't have that!

I'm damn tired of the hardcore gamers who want to make every game into a miserable experience for everyone who's not "dedicated" to it and willing to make it into a separate career. Most people play games to have a bit of fun, goof off, and escape from the grind of reality. But there are always some tryhards determined to keep fun to a minimum and turn every game into a miserable, serious, hyper-competitive hellhole. They can stay in Faction Play and keep pondering why that game mode is dead. I'm sure it can't have anything to do with the complete lack of match-making, the endless PUG vs. team stomps, the horrible game modes, the terrible, shooting gallery maps, and the laughable objective.

Faction Play is a failure - keep that failure out of my Quick Play.

Edited by oldradagast, 23 July 2017 - 06:37 AM.

[Galenit]

Kill Chain, on 23 July 2017 - 05:57 AM, said:

If I were a dev I would just limit premade groups to 4 players (Lance size). Other lobby type shooters like World of Warships etc. limit the amounts of players in a group going into the same match, I don't see why PGI doesn't do the same.

History about quickplay:
Some time ago qp was for groups and solos,
then they split it and only solos and groups with at the most 4 mans can play qp,
larger groups had to play groupplay.
Guess what happened?


Yes you are right!
Lots of big groups split up to 4 mans to still stomp pugs,
groupplay was nearly empty,
so pgi decided to make qp solo only.

If you want to know more?
Just do a forumsearch about sync-dropping.


Edit: Used wrong word, f.... aphasie

Edited by Galenit, 26 July 2017 - 01:17 AM.

[Aiden Skye]

oldradagast, on 23 July 2017 - 06:30 AM, said:

So, we're "softies" because we are only interested in playing fast, reasonably balanced games where people of most any skill level can participate? Oh, the horror - a game mode that is straightforward, approachable, and fun! We can't have that!

I'm damn tired of the hardcore gamers who want to make every game into a miserable experience for everyone who's not "dedicated" to it and willing to make it into a separate career. Most people play games to have a bit of fun, goof off, and escape from the grind of reality. But there are always some tryhards determined to keep fun to a minimum and turn every game into a miserable, serious, hyper-competitive hellhole. They can stay in Faction Play and keep pondering why that game mode is dead. I'm sure it can't have anything to do with the complete lack of match-making, the endless PUG vs. team stomps, the horrible game modes, the terrible, shooting gallery maps, and the laughable objective.

Faction Play is a failure - keep that failure out of my Quick Play.

Who's making your game a miserable experience. You guys are all in here whining how you can't hack it. So go back into QP where you belong! QQ

[z3a1ot]

Viktor Drake, on 22 July 2017 - 11:04 AM, said:

Yeah, I don't understand why the FP match scores are so low. I average like 300 in QP and it isn't uncommon for me to hit 400-500 match scores fairly often. In FP, I am averaging closer to 200 so the grind is brutal. Personally I am stopping at 6400 because I just don't like FP enough to play around 50-60 matches to get the faction pattern. The challenge should have been about half that amount to clear.

That's because match score in FP is evenly distributed between all your mechs you used in that game. For example you do like 500 match score with your first mech but fail to do good with your second, that 500 ms will be divided by 2. I have seen guys doing like almost 1000 ms with 1 mech, not dieing the entire match.

[HGAK47]

I am quite sure I am not the only one around here who has been playing for more than long enough to step into FP - however what is the incentive?

QP is fine, I get fast matches and its over fast win or lose. Nothing I hear about FP other than the respawns really grabs my attention. I often hear how its a long wait for a short fast stomp..... doesnt sound appealing to solo puggers like myself.

Edit - As far as I know there isnt even a way in game to find units and groups to play with, at least no easy way to browse and discover units that are recruting.

If they want to build the game they need a way to talk with recruiters and recuit ingame, hell even a "Help" channel in the mechlab area would be such a bonus to players.

Edited by HGAK47, 23 July 2017 - 07:45 AM.

[oldradagast]

W A R K H A N, on 23 July 2017 - 06:38 AM, said:

Who's making your game a miserable experience. You guys are all in here whining how you can't hack it. So go back into QP where you belong! QQ

Hey, you're the one who posted the completely unhelpful and fight-picking post that contained nothing but whining about "QP softies." So, if you don't like the fact somebody called you out on it, don't post drivel like that.

As for "not hacking it in FP," yeah - any game mode that hands out free wins to big teams just because they got lucky and were paired up against PUG's is NOT a "high skill game environment."

Just more of the usual FP elitist drivel. They get their jollies out of bashing everyone who's "not as good as them" - as if skill level in a video game is worth a single forum post, much less a whole forum devoted to chest-beating. But if you call them out on their "noob-farming" free-wins crap and expect FP to be changed in some way to reduce the endless stomps, they cry a river that their free wins are threatened.

Edited by oldradagast, 23 July 2017 - 07:46 AM.

[Methanoid]

oldradagast, on 23 July 2017 - 07:43 AM, said:

As for "not hacking it in FP," yeah - any game mode that hands out free wins to big teams just because they got lucky and were paired up against PUG's is NOT a "high skill game environment."

PUG's i think represented by the fish below...

[Asym]

What you are seeing in this discussion is the strategic goal of PGI: to create a brawling only battlespace.........

You'd better get use to "getting stomped" because that is all that will be left.......and, people will buy their way out of getting stomped BECAUSE a vast majority of MWO, less the "elite semi-professionals" that don't play as an individual or the small minority of us that HATE brawling...

Put on your Big Warrior shorts because, this de-evolution of MWO is happening; whether, we want it or not...................(sigh.)

[Appuagab]

Monkey Lover, on 22 July 2017 - 10:41 AM, said:

Why don't they split the Q with groups and solo? They don't have the players. Out side events they're ghost dropping because it's a bad mode.

Pugs check FP during events → pugs get focused by groups → pugs don't play FP anymore (until next event?) → FP doesn't have players to maintain two queues.
By the way, FP actually has players for acceptable matchmaking during events which are supposed to attract people to FP. But PGI can't miss an opportunity to shoot their own feet.

HGAK47, on 23 July 2017 - 07:42 AM, said:

Edit - As far as I know there isnt even a way in game to find units and groups to play with, at least no easy way to browse and discover units that are recruting.

I was proposing a recruiting ingame chat channel like in Warframe for hundreds of times. PGI doesn't care.

Asym, on 23 July 2017 - 08:17 AM, said:

What you are seeing in this discussion is the strategic goal of PGI: to create a brawling only battlespace.........

Stomping doesn't always occur via brawling. Often it's just setting a firing line on some «meta» camping spot and waiting for kills to come 900 meters away.

Edited by Appuagab, 23 July 2017 - 08:27 AM.

[davoodoo]

Asym ffs...

[Tarl Cabot]

Methanoid, on 23 July 2017 - 05:26 AM, said:

they coulda balanced that a different way like artificially increasing cooldowns or something, the heat system really isnt great. if it was to stop alpha'ing then er, isnt that kinda what we have now from this last patch?

Thing is MWO does not have an fully functional heat system, it simply has a HEAT CAP...and going to NO HEAT game... lets just say your friends would have bailed for being instantly killed. And the type of population would be much different than it is now. Ghost Heat and damage after surpassing 100% was added when 6PPC stalkers (60pts of damage) ran about. Fire, shutdown, cool off and fire again, no damage done to them.

davoodoo, on 23 July 2017 - 05:34 AM, said:

Mwo is perversion of battletech heat system.

Not only
1)we have heat system from battletech
2)we also have lower cooldowns from 10s accross the board down to less than 1s on ac2 and even ppc at 4s without adjusting heat sinks for that(lower cooldowns are fine but increase dissipation to keep the flow)
3)we then also got nerfs to dhs so instead of them being double, there are one and half sinks
4)then we also have hardpoints on top of that limiting how much weapons of each type can we carry
5)then we also have ghost heat on top of that
and to salvage situation we needed to get drop on heat for quite a few weapons...

Basically mwo mech which hits around 40% efficiency on smurphy would be heat neutral in tt.

Oh and why do we have ghost heat?? because pgi insists on weapons being pinpoint accurate...

• Yes, weapons generate heat at different rates but the the Heat Scale is only a heat CAP, with a base 30+ total heat sink capacity.
  
• TT is the 10s/round, a simulation of what was happening for a lance of mechs. Solaris VII, a 2.5s/round, was meant for 1 mech and that awesome actually would shutdown on the first full alpha. It had cooldown timers (weapon delays) which was used in every MPBT and was close to what MWO had in early beta while only Friends&Family (Tier 8) had access in 4vs4 drops. Their complaints They voiced their concerns it took too long to kill a mech (7 or so mechs were available at the time) so cooldown timers were reduced by 50% or more.
  
• No true DHS tied to how the heat capacity was setup and lower cooldown timers. And that was dealing with only IS mechs and weapons.
  
• Hardpoints - only issue I have has been the inability to fully lift weapon mounted arms from the ball scratching area.
  
• Ghost Heat.. Power Draw to generate ghost heat. Many of the aspects above, or lack there of, is the reason for the current Ghost Heat.

The Heat Scale only use is to limit how many times weapons can be fired before shutting down/exploding. BB gives its warning but there is nothing proceeding it. The TT/SVI Heat Scale does not have to be used in its entirely, other than the heatcap is not even being used as a guideline. It could be used with 2-3 stages BEFORE the cap to add penalties that is currently associated with the cXL/LFE, the movement penalty, as well as in adding w/cross hairs fluctuations that increases higher up the scale.

The above with longer cooldown timers, possibly true DHS but with different capacities, would add a different aspect to the game. As for Ghost Heat, my version of it would add tiny amounts of "ghost heat" when more than 1 weapon is being fired instead of giving a big "HELLO!!!" And there would be a max 3 cross hairs, one for each arm w/weapons and torso.

[davoodoo]

Yes in solaris rules each weapon generates 4 times as much heat, but then heat sinks also dissipate heat 4 times during 10s for basically 4 times dissipation.

Under solaris 7 rules that awesome would indeed need to chainfire, but it wouldnt shut him down.
Basically
1st turn fires ppc heat goes up to 12(+40-28)
2nd turn fires ppc heat goes up to 24
3rd turn fires ppc heat goes up to 36
4th turn you dont fire anything heat goes down to 8

also solaris isnt accurate representation of what happens during regular tt turn cause as you can see you just generated 8 heat while normal tt turn would generate only 2.

[Kill Chain]

Galenit, on 23 July 2017 - 06:38 AM, said:

History about quickplay:
Some time ago qp was for groups and solos,
then they split it and only solos and groups with at the most 4 mans can play qp,
larger groups had to play groupplay.
Guess what happened?


Yes you are right!
Lots of big groups split up to 4 mans to still stomp groups,
groupplay was nearly empty,
so pgi decided to make qp solo only.

If you want to know more?
Just do a forumsearch about sync-dropping.

As they say in the stock market: "Past performance is not indicative of future results."

[Tarl Cabot]

davoodoo, on 23 July 2017 - 09:27 AM, said:

Yes in solaris rules each weapon generates 4 times as much heat, but then heat sinks also dissipate heat 4 times during 10s for basically 4 times dissipation.

Under solaris 7 rules that awesome would indeed need to chainfire, but it wouldnt shut him down.
Basically
1st turn fires ppc heat goes up to 12(+40-28)
2nd turn fires ppc heat goes up to 24
3rd turn fires ppc heat goes up to 36
4th turn you dont fire anything heat goes down to 8

also solaris isnt accurate representation of what happens during regular tt turn cause as you can see you just generated 8 heat while normal tt turn would generate only 2.

The difference between the SVII 8ht is 4x multiplier TT 2ht. Remember, the SVII Heatscale is 120 vs TT Heatscale of 30. And on the 4th turn the 1st of the 3 PPCs was not ready to fire, as it could not be fired until Rnd 5. Change that to ERPPC and it starts getting quite toasty .

PPC 40 heat (4x10ht) 3 Delay - Fire Rnd 1, hold, hold, hold, Fire Rnd 5 (this is about where PGI original cooldown timers were during early beta).

The shorter range weapons though had lower delays (cooldowns)
isML 12ht (4x5ht) 1 Delay - Fire Rnd 1, hold, Fire Rnd 3

Simply showing the SVII tables, which currently only reflect IS weapon tables. The funny thing is that on the Clan tables, the higher Delays are set at 2 instead of the IS 3 Delay.

Of course with SVII, machine guns ruled since the boardgames had no hardpoint restrictions. A fast mech w/lots of machine games with the ability to fire every round and no heat. Still a roll of the dice but dang....

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 25 July 2017 - 07:45 PM.

[Kubernetes]

The biggest factor in FP match score is number of mechs lost. You can do 1500 dmg and lose no mechs and well outscore a guy who does 3000 and gets permakilled. It's not really common to suffer zero deaths unless it's a complete seal slaughter, but it can put you north of 1000 match score.

[meteorol]

I easily have 500h+ invested into CW, but i don't really play it anymore.

I always hoped for PGI to improve the utterly terrible invasion maps and the gamemode itself (which they didn't) and wanted to get the lvl10 loyalty stuff on must factions (+lvl 20 on JF), which kept me going. But now... I played some of it again when you could actually be sure NOT to hit invasion gamemode, but now that you can randomly get stuck in this sh*tshow again... i'll stay away from CW.

Edited by meteorol, 26 July 2017 - 12:27 AM.

[Hallgrimur]

As a pug, the number one thing I dont like about fw is how it limits your choices so much. Playing clan, right off the bat I can't use my mad 3r or whms. Then, I have 240 tons spread across 4 mechs. Ok, I get why that is. But as a player, I do not like piloting lights. The lightest mech I truly enjoy is hbk iic-a, so ok, I'll take 2 of those. 140 tons left, no way I can ever drive a kodiak in a deck I dont end up with a filler mech on, so thats out. I wish clans had a competent 70 tonner but we have the summoner which isnt really great for mech of the line stuff fw demands and no other 70 ton choices. Meta changes hurt night gyr bad, and thats fine tbh, so I guess its back to tbr, hbr and ebon again. Then we fit them, generally for mid to lange range, with either an over abundance of or lack of dependance on ammo because a mech with dry bins is worthless and we have 4 times the tonnage to chew through. Makes quite a few build even less viable. Solo dropping with an srm brawler on boreal vault is about the dumbest thing you can do, even if you just really want to break out a griffin or something.

Basically, sometimes a man just wants to dakka with a kodiak without being forced into a mist lynx later on. If all games were drop deck games, I'd be forced into playing mechs, and styles, that I dont care for with far greater frequency. That I couldnt feasibly fit a kodiak, mad cat mkii, nightstar or w/e into my drop deck is a really bad buisness decision from pgis point of view. Fw has a place, the styles and fittings are a bit different from qp, but both have their place and shouldn't be merged.

Edited by Hallgrimur, 26 July 2017 - 01:36 AM.

[TWIAFU]

davoodoo, on 22 July 2017 - 10:49 AM, said:

There are players but they dont want to play this garbage because theyll be roflstomped by premades

integrate into qp, since you already run the modes so why the **** not and youll have enough players to separate...

Then play the mode as primarily designed instead of a place to get farmed farming for mech bays and crap colors/patters.

Not surprising to be at a disadvantage when you choose to play at a disadvantage then complain about the disadvantage.

[Archer Magnus]

I like the drop decks and longer games, but man, those wait times.

[Wyald Katt]

Mystere, on 22 July 2017 - 06:18 PM, said:

People who created 1-person units knew exactly what they were getting into.

Come on baby make it hurt so good...

As another solo dropper, I was okay with the way things were, and then bumped up the Siege %. Bleh.

I'm sure they'll figure out a way to make Faction Play enjoyable for everybody, sooner or later.

Edited by Wyald Katt, 26 July 2017 - 05:30 AM.