28 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

So now that we have heavy large lasers, and ER MLs just got their range back, its time for me to resume my crusade for the Kingfisher omni-mech!

You may be asking yourself "What do these things have to do with each other" and well, I'll tell you.

The Kingfisher is a 90 ton omni-mech known for its "relative invulnerability". Its primary drawback is its STD360 engine, which is quite heavy, but it does have both Endo and Ferro, which leaves it with just enough tonnage for laser vomit, to the point where it actually is tonnage restricted with cLPLs, with slots left over. Now that HLLs are available, this improves the situation as one can mount 2 HLLs, not have to strip nearly as much armor, if any, and then 5-6 ER MLs along with about 25-26 DHS. I know HLLs are hot, but they actually create less HPS than the cLPL, so I think this should be fine.

Further more, the Kingfisher has high mounted hardpoints depicted in the shoulders, as well as a variant with 2 E hardpoints in the CT.

In order to balance it against other 90 tonners like the Supernova and Mad Cat MK.II which can be much more deadly, PGI could use baseline agility or durability bonuses or some combination of the two to set it apart. With PGI's track record lately, new mechs always seem to come out just fine, and I'm pretty confident this one would fall into that category without even looking at other possible builds.

#KingfisherMWO

[Valdarion Silarius]

Unfortunately I think the Blood Asp is going to get the 90 ton clan omnimech slot over the Kingfisher. It has more popular nostalgia recognition and very high weapon mounts for the same tonnage. Even though the Blood Asp is essentially an updated Kingfisher, I feel that the Kingfisher would be a more tanky mech that would have better heat management.

[Gas Guzzler]

FupDup, on 22 July 2017 - 07:22 PM, said:

For baseline agility, it doesn't really make sense to gimp the Kingfish in that department because of its relatively low pod space for its size and its most likely application as a brawler (STD engine and most hardpoints probably won't be that high).

As for new mechs "always seem to come out fine," bro do you even Uziel?

Yeah that's why i was saying it would get good baseline agility/durability to balance against the low podspace.

The Uziel.. I have only had a couple games in it. I kind of liked the ER ML-Gauss build though, it was nice a nimble. Its just awfully squishy. But still, last mech that came out useless was..?

[TheArisen]

As a pure IS player I support the Kingfisher over the Blood Asp

#KingfisherMWO

[Gas Guzzler]

Arnold The Governator, on 22 July 2017 - 07:17 PM, said:

Unfortunately I think the Blood Asp is going to get the 90 ton clan omnimech slot over the Kingfisher. It has more popular nostalgia recognition and very high weapon mounts for the same tonnage. Even though the Blood Asp is essentially an updated Kingfisher, I feel that the Kingfisher would be a more tanky mech that would have better heat management.

I'm okay with 2 90 ton Clan Omnimechs personally, but I totally don't expect your support on this because of our.... "history". Haha.

Something to keep in mind, Blood Asp would likely get poor agility like the Mad Cat Mk. II and the Marauder-IIC, just FYI. I would expect the Kingfisher to be closer to the Cyclops/BNC-3M in terms of agility.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 22 July 2017 - 07:26 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Kingfisher for Gas
Rifleman IIC for Arnold
Raptor for me!

All we're missing is a Medium for PGI's next 'Mech pack!

[FupDup]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 July 2017 - 07:25 PM, said:

Yeah that's why i was saying it would get good baseline agility/durability to balance against the low podspace.

The Uziel.. I have only had a couple games in it. I kind of liked the ER ML-Gauss build though, it was nice a nimble. Its just awfully squishy. But still, last mech that came out useless was..?

I misinterpreted your post, I initially thought that you were suggesting baseline agility as a nerf rather than a buff relative to the other clan 90-tonners. That's why I tried to ninja-delete my other post, but I wasn't quick enough.

Maybe I need that baseline agility buff...

[Gas Guzzler]

Yeonne Greene, on 22 July 2017 - 07:29 PM, said:

Kingfisher for Gas
Rifleman IIC for Arnold
Raptor for me!

All we're missing is a Medium for PGI's next 'Mech pack!

I want a Sunder too, but honestly the Kingfisher would probably be better without even knowing baseline agility. There is just nothing compelling to put on the Sunder.. UAC10 and 2 Heavy PPC maybe?

Hell, if we got a Sunder, Kingfisher, and Blood Asp, I would have a hard time playing non-90 ton mechs considering I already love all the 90 ton options in the game.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 22 July 2017 - 07:37 PM.

[Lucian Nostra]

I think a clan omni with a standard engine is a tough sell to PGI, probably why they chose the Supernova over it in the last pack they did since the super could swap it's std to an XL.

I'm sorta running out of mechs I wanna see, Turkina being the last one really so I'd say sure why not the Kingfisher, but that's gonna be a tough one.. to push PGI on, your basically trying to sell an Executioner with less pod space, no masc and no JJs for a few higher mounts. :S

Edited by Lucian Nostra, 22 July 2017 - 07:43 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Lucian Nostra, on 22 July 2017 - 07:41 PM, said:

I think a clan omni with a standard engine is a tough sell to PGI, probably why they chose the Supernova over it in the last pack they did since the super could swap it's std to an XL.

I'm sorta running out of mechs I wanna see, Turkina being the last one really so I'd say sure why not the Kingfisher, but that's gonna be a tough one.. to push PGI on, your basically trying to sell an Executioner with less pod space, no masc and no JJs for a few higher mounts. :S

So you give it some boss durability and good baseline agility. Done. It also has the selling point of arms that aren't knuckledraggy like the EXE. If they really needed more of a selling point, there is that F variant with ECM that they could modify. I'd prefer the CT with 2E hardpoints vs 1E and ECM but that is just me.

Also, 5 E hardpoints in the torso vs 3 (soon to be 4) on the EXE.

I'd like a Dire Turkey as well. With the baseline agility system it shouldn't be hard to differentiate it from the Dire by giving it better agility.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 22 July 2017 - 07:47 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Lucian Nostra, on 22 July 2017 - 07:41 PM, said:

I think a clan omni with a standard engine is a tough sell to PGI, probably why they chose the Supernova over it in the last pack they did since the super could swap it's std to an XL.

Bruh...

They released the Cougar.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 July 2017 - 07:26 PM, said:

I'm okay with 2 90 ton Clan Omnimechs personally, but I totally don't expect your support on this because of our.... "history". Haha.

Something to keep in mind, Blood Asp would likely get poor agility like the Mad Cat Mk. II and the Marauder-IIC, just FYI. I would expect the Kingfisher to be closer to the Cyclops/BNC-3M in terms of agility.

No problem since I don't hold grudges against anyone. If you really want the Kingfisher to get in game, you are gonna have to sell it hard to the people that are uneducated about the mech. I never heard of the mech until I read about it on the forums. Your biggest competition will be of course the Blood Asp, which is Paul's pet mech and the favorite of a lot of MW4 nostalgic fanboys. Going by your own poll list you might have to wait a bit, but don't give up the fight and raise awareness of it where ever you can. I hope we all get our favorite pet mechs in there sooner than later.

[Gas Guzzler]

Also what is ironic is that the Kingfisher would run a similar build to the Supernova but be faster and have torso mounted weapons, it would however run slightly hotter. If it wasn't for the SNV-1's awesome agility, the Kingfisher would actually be a better quick play robot trudging around at 70 kph.

Arnold The Governator, on 22 July 2017 - 08:03 PM, said:

No problem since I don't hold grudges against anyone. If you really want the Kingfisher to get in game, you are gonna have to sell it hard to the people that are uneducated about the mech. I never heard of the mech until I read about it on the forums. Your biggest competition will be of course the Blood Asp, which is Paul's pet mech and the favorite of a lot of MW4 nostalgic fanboys. Going by your own poll list you might have to wait a bit, but don't give up the fight and raise awareness of it where ever you can. I hope we all get our favorite pet mechs in there sooner than later.

For what its worth, I'm all for the Roflman IIC as our next Clan heavy.

[Khobai]

Std engine would need a huge buff for Kingfisher to even be considered

and Kingfisher would need atlas/annihilator level structure quirks besides, or whatever the equivalent of those quirks is for a 90 tonner

because the difference beween STD and CXL is 16.5 tons. youre losing 16.5 tons by not being able to use a CXL.

and the only real benefit youre getting is no side torso penalties, which is not worth 16.5 tons. not having side torso penalties is worth maybe 3-4 tons and thats being optimistic.

Edited by Khobai, 22 July 2017 - 08:26 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 22 July 2017 - 08:18 PM, said:

Std engine needs a huge buff for Kingfisher to even be considered

Nah it'd be fine. 70 kph assault, capable of a ~450 m range 71 damage alpha, decent hardpoints, give it some good baseline agility/durability quirks to make up for the locked standard engine, and its good.

I said all that, did you miss it or something? lol. The engine is locked so they can give it appropriate buffs to compensate. Its easy.

Khobai, on 22 July 2017 - 08:18 PM, said:

and Kingfisher would need atlas/annihilator level structure quirks besides, or whatever the equivalent of those quirks is for a 90 tonner

because the difference beween STD and CXL is 16.5 tons

and the only real benefit youre getting it no side torso penalties, which is not worth 16.5 tons. not having side torso penalties worth maybe 3-4 tons and thats being optimistic.

The same could be said about omnimechs that don't have endo and ferro, or just have ferro. I'm not seeing a good argument here. Spreadsheet warrior is one thing, the implementation is what matters. And it would NOT need ANH level armor because its 70 kph, not 52 kph with a long neck.

[Khobai]

Quote

Nah it'd be fine

if by fine you mean pissing away 16.5 tons for no reason. so yeah it wouldnt really be fine

not only would STD engine need a huge buff, but it would also need atlas/annihilator level armor quirks, and some mean *** laser quirks just to get considered.

i mean theres definitely a niche for a super tough clan assault. because the direwolf sure isnt filling it.

Edited by Khobai, 22 July 2017 - 08:35 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 22 July 2017 - 08:29 PM, said:

if by fine you mean pissing away 16.5 tons for no reason. so yeah it wouldnt really be fine

not only would STD engine need a huge buff, but it would also need atlas/annihilator level armor quirks, and some mean *** laser quirks just to get considered.

i mean theres definitely a niche for a super tough clan assault. because the direwolf sure isnt filling it.

Like I said twice now, since it is "pissing away" the tonnage, it can be balanced accordingly. And I don't see why it would need all these buffs at all. Something yes, some durability and maybe Cyclops-esque agility, but it doesn't need all the help you are saying it needs. Like I said, 70 kph, 71 damage alpha at 450 m, decently high hardpoints. Stop looking at the numbers and look at the final product. Everyone said the Supernova was gonna be trash, especially the -1 variant, and it turned out awesome.

[Khobai]

Quote

but it doesn't need all the help you are saying it needs.

it does if you expect me to pay real money for it

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 22 July 2017 - 08:47 PM, said:

it does if you expect me to pay real money for it

I'm happy with balanced, doesn't need to overpowered.

Any assault trucking along at 70 kph with 25-26 DHS and a 71 damage alpha is going to do just fine in this game.

[Khobai]

Quote

I'm happy with balanced, doesn't need to overpowered.

it wouldnt be, its being forced to use a standard engine, which automatically makes it lol