18 replies to this topic

[IL MECHWARRIOR]

erll, ac2 and erppc out range gauss by way too far.

Gauss is supposed to be a sniping weapon, but honestly, clan ac2 reach 1035 meters, erppcs on some mechs over 1000 meters as well, cerll from 880 to 925 depending on the tcomp, similar values on IS mechs with that 10% range quirk (meta battlemaster 1g 6 erll)

Point 1)
charge up mechanic was introduced to desync gauss and ppc, now that ghost heat does it, charge mechanic should be removed or at least the charge time should be cut in half.


point 2) now that gausses can not be used anymore with erppcs, and now that erppcs got a significant speed buff, those 660 meters of nerf on the gauss make no sense.
gauss base range should be increased to 750, max range 1500


About other gausses.
light and heavy gauss are not even weapons, they are toys.

-Heavygauss: range way too short, at that range i use srms, medpulses and such stuff.
base range should be 400 and max range 800


-Lightgauss: 12 tons +2/3 of ammo for 8 damage???!!! lol???!!! optimal 900 max 1800 damage 10

[Appuagab]

Perfect solution: cut the optimal range of all other ranged weapons to 660m and now it's considered a long range.

[Honeybadgers]

I find the light gauss to need another 2 damage, but I still run it on medium mechs in place of the AC10 if the mech isn't a brawler.

The heavy gauss is amazing. I run it on my marauder 3r and it hits like an imploding star. I will be fitting it to many more mechs, because that mech has a propensity to really rip apart anything that it sees out to about 500m.

Heavy gauss shouldn't be too long ranged, or they would be absolutely OP. It's a lore problem, but balance does have to take precedence.

Edited by Honeybadgers, 23 July 2017 - 10:49 PM.

[BTGbullseye]

A better way to balance these is to give them to the Clans as well... Then PGI will make them all equally as crappy as the 'new' Clan weapons.

[Dee Eight]

How PGI has the range of the Gauss is actually exactly what it was in the source material... 22 hexes range is 660 meters. AC/2s and ER-PPCs always shot further.

[General Solo]

We had long range once a time.

But its no good for brawling.

And if you can aim and hit something (Yep even air) at over 800 metres away,
your obviously cheating.

[Dr Cara Carcass]

Dee Eight, on 24 July 2017 - 01:19 AM, said:

How PGI has the range of the Gauss is actually exactly what it was in the source material... 22 hexes range is 660 meters. AC/2s and ER-PPCs always shot further.

ERPPC was 23 Hexes or 4.5% more range than the gauss has. ATM the PPC has 810M or 23% more range. Either increase the Gauss range and keep the charge mechanic or remove the charge mechanic from the gauss and decrease the er-ppc range.

Edited by Cara Carcass, 28 July 2017 - 03:38 AM.

[Messiah Complex]

I was very skeptical of Heavy Gauss at first but my god 25 dmg plus 4 mpl(24dmg) on a single point is devastating. I run a Mad-3R with it WOO tough MOFO competes evenly with my LB20 4 mland my 6ml UAC20 Mad's. Light gauss on the other hand has found no place on any of my mechs by weighing FAR!!! too much for the dmg. For one more ton I can just put a UAC10 on and go wild.

[Honeybadgers]

If anyone wants to try a really mean poking mech, the crab florentine with 2 erml, 2 MRM10 and a Light gauss on an XL 280 puts out a LOT of damage in the 400-700 range, and the pinpoint nature really beats the AC10 at that range when you're peeking.

[MadRover]

600+m is considered long range. However the light gauss is technically not light.

Light Gauss is supposed to weigh less tons and use less slots. While it somewhat does weigh less, when compared to all the other gauss rifles in the game, it still has the weight of a regular gauss rifle in practice. Add the amount of slots it takes means you either need to sacrifice CASE for it to be practical or just flat out ignore it. I can live with 8damage per shot fired but make it both weigh 10tons instead of 12 and make it use 1 less crit slot so we can at least slap CASE into it (meaning some IS mechs will still be using std engines.

So let's do the current math: 1 LGauss takes 6slots, 12tons + .5 ton for CASE+ 2tons of ammo or a minimum of a whole ton = 9slots and 14.5 tons which is the basic equivalent of a regular gauss considering the weight to output ratio vs 1LGauss taking 5slots, 10tons + .5 tons for CASE+ 2tons of ammo (or 1 respectfully) = 8slots, 12.5tons and not being an exclusive weapon for IS assault mechs.

[Tesunie]

anonymous223, on 23 July 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

erll, ac2 and erppc out range gauss by way too far.

Gauss is supposed to be a sniping weapon, but honestly, clan ac2 reach 1035 meters, erppcs on some mechs over 1000 meters as well, cerll from 880 to 925 depending on the tcomp, similar values on IS mechs with that 10% range quirk (meta battlemaster 1g 6 erll)

So, let me get your argument as you presented it correctly...

You've compared the optimum range of Gauss Rifles to the max range of other weapons to create a large difference between weapon ranges...

I'm sorry, but your data is poorly presented. If you wanted to compare weapon ranges in relation to sniping weapon types, you should compare all their effective optimum ranges as well as their max ranges.

So, where as you propose that the Guass has an implied mac range of 660m (which I believe is it's optimum range, not it's max range), and then compared that optimum range to other weapon's max range, instead of their optimum ranges...


For the record, the Gauss rifle has an optimum range of 660m and a MAX RANGE OF 1320m.
CAC2 has an optimum range of 900m, max of 1800. This is also a weapon known for hitting targets "on the horizon".
CERPPC has an optimum range of 810 and a max range of 1620. Also known for being a sniping weapon, just like Gauss.
ERLL has an optimum range of 740 and a max range of 1480. It's called an Extended Range Large Laser for it's increase in range over a standard large laser. Also considered more of a mid to long range weapon.

In comparison to it's other "sniper" class weapons, it's well within the expected range envelope.


Now, I'm not saying things could or couldn't use improvement, but the misrepresentation of information within the OP I felt needed to be addressed. Comparing a weapon's optimum range to other similar weapon's maximum range is not a good place to compare weapons, unless one was aiming for hyperbole and to make it look worse than it really is.

[Dr Cara Carcass]

Tesunie, on 30 July 2017 - 01:28 PM, said:

So, let me get your argument as you presented it correctly...

You've compared the optimum range of Gauss Rifles to the max range of other weapons to create a large difference between weapon ranges...

I'm sorry, but your data is poorly presented. If you wanted to compare weapon ranges in relation to sniping weapon types, you should compare all their effective optimum ranges as well as their max ranges.

So, where as you propose that the Guass has an implied mac range of 660m (which I believe is it's optimum range, not it's max range), and then compared that optimum range to other weapon's max range, instead of their optimum ranges...


For the record, the Gauss rifle has an optimum range of 660m and a MAX RANGE OF 1320m.
CAC2 has an optimum range of 900m, max of 1800. This is also a weapon known for hitting targets "on the horizon".
CERPPC has an optimum range of 810 and a max range of 1620. Also known for being a sniping weapon, just like Gauss.
ERLL has an optimum range of 740 and a max range of 1480. It's called an Extended Range Large Laser for it's increase in range over a standard large laser. Also considered more of a mid to long range weapon.

In comparison to it's other "sniper" class weapons, it's well within the expected range envelope.


Now, I'm not saying things could or couldn't use improvement, but the misrepresentation of information within the OP I felt needed to be addressed. Comparing a weapon's optimum range to other similar weapon's maximum range is not a good place to compare weapons, unless one was aiming for hyperbole and to make it look worse than it really is.

Are you trolling?

I mean you say that he/she didnt do the math right. Then you do the math and agree with what was said previously.

somewhat confusing...

For me most real sniper duels happen on 900-1000m the gauss is useless beacuse you already loose a lot of dmg and the other weapons still do quite a lot percentage wise with respect to their max dmg and that is due to quirks.

The only thing the gauss has going for itself ist the heat to dmg ratio.

Of all the sniper weapons it has the lowest optimum range.
It has a charge mechanic.
The bullet speed is not really faster since the ppcs got buffed in velo. Some mechs can even go 3400m/s on ppcs due to quirks - untinkable for guass. thats 60% faster.
gauss explodes. Gauss cannot hold charge indefenmetly makeing it sometimes really bad since you just lost charge and cannot be ready to fire again quick enough.

But most importantly - Op didnt compare optimum to max ranges.

ac2 opt range 720m - 1440m max
erppc opt range 810m -1620m max
cerll opt range 740m - 1480m max
gauss opt range 660m - 1320m max

all above gauss and with quirks just a bit shy of 1000m often. compared to the 750m somewhat meter gauss can get. Thats roughly 25% difference.

Edited by Cara Carcass, 30 July 2017 - 03:11 PM.

[Tesunie]

Cara Carcass, on 30 July 2017 - 03:09 PM, said:

Are you trolling?

I mean you say that he/she didnt do the math right. Then you do the math and agree with what was said previously.

The problem I had was with how things where presented. I can't say for the OP in this case, but I have seen people try to make a case on "how bad" something is by pulling a trick just like this. Present information incorrectly to make their point seem more valid than it may actually be.

Overall though, the Gauss's range sits reasonably well with the other sniper like weapons, especially considering that it deals 15 pin point damage for a single point of heat produced. In comparison, the CERPPC deals 10 points of PP damage and 2.5-5 points of splash damage at a little bit farther range for more heat. The AC2 may have an optimum range of 900m, but it deals 2 damage per shot (and reloads quickly).

When compared to ERLLs, then you now have to consider not only the heat to damage to range, but also how that damage now spreads as the laser has a beam duration.


Overall, I don't believe Gauss is behind other sniper weapons at this time. It can hit out to long ranges (past 1,000m) and does good damage at those ranges even (though it is better closer to 660m of course). That is still sniper ranges, still making the Gauss a solid sniper weapon to choose.

Under the current argument (especially once proper data is presented), I just don't see it. Is it possible that Gauss could now use a buff? Sure. But I believe that this argument just isn't supporting it at this time.



Basically, I don't believe it needs any changes, but I could still be convinced it might. The information presented so far in the OP just doesn't convince me at least. Does that make sense to you?

[MadRover]

Tesunie, on 30 July 2017 - 05:06 PM, said:

Overall, I don't believe Gauss is behind other sniper weapons at this time. It can hit out to long ranges (past 1,000m) and does good damage at those ranges even (though it is better closer to 660m of course). That is still sniper ranges, still making the Gauss a solid sniper weapon to choose.

They're sniper weapons? Does such a thing exist considering I always ended up using Gauss rifles at around 700m until everyone gets to around 300m lol.

Really though the better term would be pinpoint weapons although you wouldn't want to be using Gauss rifles below 300m. the way things currently play out though, you very rarely get the ranges you are looking for.

[Tesunie]

MadRover, on 30 July 2017 - 08:57 PM, said:

They're sniper weapons? Does such a thing exist considering I always ended up using Gauss rifles at around 700m until everyone gets to around 300m lol. Really though the better term would be pinpoint weapons although you wouldn't want to be using Gauss rifles below 300m. the way things currently play out though, you very rarely get the ranges you are looking for.

In actual Battletech, there is technically no "sniper" specific mechs and would be more classified as "long range support mechs", such as the Jagermech for one example. In this game, people have come to use the more classic RPG and FPS terminology, such as Sniper, Tank, etc.

Still, 15 damage which (with enough skill or luck) can be placed into a single component of an opponent can be rather powerful. 660m is mid to long range, with 1000m being "really long range". Gauss has a good velocity, which makes it rather accurate at range, though the current charge mechanic does make it harder to land damage quickly and does hinder brawling range engagement. (This actually isn't a bad mechanic to represent their minimum range that they had in TT and lore.)

Engaging at a chosen range is as much skill based as it is luck based. All it can sometimes take to ruin your intended range of engagement is a single opponent who was able to sneak up on you, or an opponent who found a good angle at range on you.


Overall, the Gauss still fits well into what people would call a "sniper" styled weapon. It has the potential to hit hard and at good ranges, compared to the AC20 (for example), which also hits hard but at a much closer range.

I do think though that some people are very hung up on a single aspect of a weapon instead of considering the whole of the weapon. In this case, people are looking at only ranges, not effectiveness at what ranges and how the weapon operates. For example, we've established that the AC2 has greater range than the Gauss, but in actuality, I've always found the AC2 to be far more effective at mid to even close ranges, where I am more likely to land more shots more often and take more advantage of the weapon's faster reload speeds. For actual long range engagements, sure it can hit out that far but you just can't actually effectively fight at those ranges. You are less likely to continue to hit, forget about hitting the same component of your opponent. Something Gauss has an easier time doing in comparison. Line up the shot, shoot it, duck back behind cover. (What a "sniper" typically is looking for. Hit, then fad. They don't want to be standing out in the open trying to DPS their targets, as that is more of a brawler aspect.)

[Dr Cara Carcass]

Tesunie, on 30 July 2017 - 05:06 PM, said:

The problem I had was with how things where presented. I can't say for the OP in this case, but I have seen people try to make a case on "how bad" something is by pulling a trick just like this. Present information incorrectly to make their point seem more valid than it may actually be.

Overall though, the Gauss's range sits reasonably well with the other sniper like weapons, especially considering that it deals 15 pin point damage for a single point of heat produced. In comparison, the CERPPC deals 10 points of PP damage and 2.5-5 points of splash damage at a little bit farther range for more heat. The AC2 may have an optimum range of 900m, but it deals 2 damage per shot (and reloads quickly).

When compared to ERLLs, then you now have to consider not only the heat to damage to range, but also how that damage now spreads as the laser has a beam duration.


Overall, I don't believe Gauss is behind other sniper weapons at this time. It can hit out to long ranges (past 1,000m) and does good damage at those ranges even (though it is better closer to 660m of course). That is still sniper ranges, still making the Gauss a solid sniper weapon to choose.

Under the current argument (especially once proper data is presented), I just don't see it. Is it possible that Gauss could now use a buff? Sure. But I believe that this argument just isn't supporting it at this time.



Basically, I don't believe it needs any changes, but I could still be convinced it might. The information presented so far in the OP just doesn't convince me at least. Does that make sense to you?

My problem with your assertion that the gauss sits well with its range is, that it doenst sit well there. Klick teh link in my signature - i know what i am talking about.

I am often at 90% before i can fire my fist shot against enemy snipers with ppcs because they have the higher range and the faster bullet speed at the moment.
I cannot waste my ammo when i only have 20 shots per gauss rife due to the huge tonnage.
At the moment i have to stay away from real sniper duels and ambush ppl that are on brawl mechs and cant fire back. Most of the time you are looking for ppl who arent paying attention.

My new sniper is the double ppc with 1012m optimal range fired at 1.2km where gauss mechs cant even fire back without wasteing 50% or more of their ammo even if they would hit every shot.


I mean look at frozen city. ppcs and erll can shoot over the canyon - gauss hss to wait til the enemy is in the middle if it ot get wrecked due to the range limitation.
the gauss needs to go up by 100m - or better make the other come down to their tt values.

Edited by Cara Carcass, 31 July 2017 - 04:32 AM.

[Evilwallofdeath]

Gauss ranges are fine.

[Lightfoot]

With the addition of RACs and all the LBX guns the Gauss Rifle is greatly diminished. The charge-up is more silly than ever, but whatever. Gauss has to completely destroy, LBX, RACs, and Machine Guns just bust the armor and then do 20 crits in 5-20 seconds for a faster kill.

Light Gauss needs longer range, like 1000 meters and 3000 meters per second. They weigh a lot and don't do much damage.

I don't see much Gauss anymore. I use them, but I also use a joystick.

[Tesunie]

Lightfoot, on 06 August 2017 - 03:44 PM, said:

I don't see much Gauss anymore. I use them, but I also use a joystick.

I think it's more to do with Gauss and PPC being grouped together for ghost heat than anything else that has changed (my opinion). This removed the ability to have a very high PPFLD alpha at long ranges...

I personally don't use the Gauss because of the Charge mechanic. I just can't seem to get the hang of it, and it isn't very fun for me to try and use it.