25 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

Currently, I found that the RAC spin-up is outright problematic, especially in our peekaboo meta. What if we could shoot the RAC immediately, but at a slower rate of fire but then speeds up. This way it could even keep a high amount of spin-up duration and high amount of rate of fire, but at the same time solves the peekaboo for RAC users.

Vote here: https://mwomercs.com...-spin-up-tweak/

Edited by The6thMessenger, 19 July 2017 - 03:17 PM.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Looks good and convenient.

[Destructicus]

This is a good idea

So it will be ignored

[Sedmeister]

I think you should have to sit a licensee test before being able to mount a RAC. Lost count of the number of times team mates cored out my back armour yesterday. LOLs. Not sure if it's practice/discipline or spin up times that are the culprit.

Regardless, I won't be using the hot things until there is at least a little tweak to the amount of actual shooting time. The spin up/down times and short firing duration makes UACS a better option at this point for me.

[The6thMessenger]

Sedmeister, on 19 July 2017 - 03:04 PM, said:

I think you should have to sit a licensee test before being able to mount a RAC. Lost count of the number of times team mates cored out my back armour yesterday. LOLs. Not sure if it's practice/discipline or spin up times that are the culprit.

Regardless, I won't be using the hot things until there is at least a little tweak to the amount of actual shooting time. The spin up/down times and short firing duration makes UACS a better option at this point for me.

Are you sure that you're not just the type that walks into fire? My team mates keep walking in front of my stream.

[Mystere]

I fully expect the game's net code and PGI to have a big "technical issue" with that.

Edited by Mystere, 19 July 2017 - 03:27 PM.

[Tyroki]

We suggested this numerous times during PTS.
It's still my hope they'll change it. Also up the damage. Also reduce the limits on ghost heat. Also...

[WrathOfDeadguy]

Words cannot express how much I like this idea.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

I noticed that RACs suffer greatly from your own team mates. Often RACs are thrown on some slow moving mechs and you need constant face time to put your damage in, but some dude on your team just runs up infront of you and you got to stop firing, then you got to spin up again, losing like 40 damage in the 2 seconds that took. Its bad enough once, but it usually happens over and over and over again, cutting your effective damage down to half of what you could have done if you had a proper firing lane and people didn't think running into a line of shells was a good idea.

Its bad enough dealing with the enemy actively moving between cover, allies shouldn't take bullets for the enemies.

[LordNothing]

thumbs up for realistic minigun mechanics. 'charging miniguns' are an insult to anyone who knows anything about military hardware.

also more cat pictures pls.

Edited by LordNothing, 19 July 2017 - 05:23 PM.

[JadePanther]

Sedmeister, on 19 July 2017 - 03:04 PM, said:

I think you should have to sit a licensee test before being able to mount a RAC. Lost count of the number of times team mates cored out my back armour yesterday. LOLs. Not sure if it's practice/discipline or spin up times that are the culprit.

Regardless, I won't be using the hot things until there is at least a little tweak to the amount of actual shooting time. The spin up/down times and short firing duration makes UACS a better option at this point for me.

i've been goin full stream at an enemy with 2 rac5... watched a teammate start running left to right.. sure enough the dingle ran straight across a solid line of RAC fire..

[Khobai]

Quote

Currently, I found that the RAC spin-up is outright problematic, especially in our peekaboo meta

Thats the whole point of the weapon. Its not supposed to be a peekaboo weapon its a facetime weapon. If you want a peekaboo weapon use a UAC instead. The RAC is for real men who dont hide behind rocks and want to walk out into the open holding down the trigger and murder everything. But right now the RAC just doesnt have enough reward for the risk involved in using it.

The peekaboo meta is the problem. Changing weapons to fit the peekaboo meta only reinforces the peekaboo meta. Changing weapons to be effective outside the peekaboo meta creates other options besides peekabooing. Thats what we need to do: create a monster of a weapon that defies the peekaboo meta.

Quote

thumbs up for realistic minigun mechanics. 'charging miniguns' are an insult to anyone who knows anything about military hardware.

The GAU-8 Avenger on the A-10 has a 0.4s spinup time. Which is probably like the closest real world equivalent to an RAC2.

Spin up time isnt the issue with RACs anyway. The issue with RACs is that they dont do enough consistent damage once the gun starts firing to make up for the facetime involved in using them. It reaches the end of the jam bar too fast and then it becomes completely RNG whether you have a decent run with the weapon or not. If it jams early youre !@#$ out of luck.

The best way to fix the RACs is just to increase the length of the rampupbar to 10 seconds so they do more consistent damage before jamming. And then make them jam 100% of the time when the bar reaches the end.

That gets rid of the RNG, rewards good jam bar management, and youre guaranteed to get 9 seconds of firing out of the weapon before it jams (if you let it jam). 9 seconds at 10.8 dmg a second is like 100 damage or something. Enough to make the RAC5 a solid facetime weapon.

The spinup time could also be lowered I suppose because 1s feels too long. Maybe like 0.75 seconds for the RAC5 and 0.5 seconds for the RAC2. I wouldnt lower it more than that though, because the spinup time is there to prevent you from being able to abuse the rampup bar mechanics.

Edited by Khobai, 19 July 2017 - 05:58 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Khobai, on 19 July 2017 - 05:32 PM, said:

Thats the whole point of the weapon. Its not supposed to be a peekaboo weapon its a facetime weapon. If you want a peekaboo weapon use a UAC instead. The RAC is for real men who dont hide behind rocks and want to walk out into the open holding down the trigger and murder everything. But right now the RAC just doesn't have enough reward for the risk involved in using it.

The peekaboo meta is the problem. Changing weapons to fit the peekaboo meta only reinforces the peekaboo meta. Changing weapons to be effective outside the peekaboo meta creates other options besides peekabooing. Thats what we need to do: create a monster of a weapon that defies the peekaboo meta.

Here's the thing, peekaboo meta is here to stay. It's just common sense that in a fire-fight, you ought to minimize exposure, and maximize damage, maximize durability too. Peeking only hurts you chances in the long run. In real life, you don't just run around shooting people like in COD, no, actual fire-fight training actually encourages cover to cover firing and moving up, not standing around in the open.

"Real men" you say, but they die while false men survive longer and get the job done.

But you know what, I agree, I want the RAC to be buffed, be DPS monster. But it being a DPS monster won't change the fact that staring into the enemy team increases the chances you could die, and in the end that's not ideal. We could buff the damage as a whole that makes staring even more likable, but that's just like the rocket launcher, a two-edged sword, it would make it so that you could just very well may die anyways like a Direstar. Or if its a 1v1, it could tread in the realm of OPness.

Likewise in the game, there's just not much chance you can stare enemy in the open, often times either you or the enemy goes back into cover, sometimes an ally goes in front of you and you have to start the spin-up time all over again.

We already have the long stare of death just so we could deal decent damage, that in it self already spits in the face of the peekaboo meta and shits on it's ******* front lawn.

Tweaking the spin like this only makes the weapon not as screwed over when staring for long isn't such a good idea. After all, only 0.8 / 1.35 damage/shot, honestly it's not gonna out-peek bonafide ACs, but it would at least be able to do small amounts of damage.

Khobai, on 19 July 2017 - 05:32 PM, said:

That gets rid of the RNG, rewards good jam bar management, and youre guaranteed to get 9 seconds of firing out of the weapon before it jams (if you let it jam). 9 seconds at 10.8 dmg a second is like 100 damage or something. Enough to make the RAC5 a solid facetime weapon.

Eh, 5 seconds is plenty. Just cut the jam duration/dissipation short.

The6thMessenger, on 02 July 2017 - 04:14 AM, said:

Quote

General Changes:

- RACs Jam 100% when Jam Meter is filled.
- RACs do not fill Jam Meter while spinning, only while shooting.
- RACs having shot, don't need to spin-up, until Spin-Down is completed. During which they could still shoot without needing to spin-up.
- Always during operation, the weapon generates heat. Be it during spin-up, spin-down, or firing, it will generate heat. Like Stealth Armor.

Quote

RAC2:

Damage/shot: 0.80
Projectile Speed: 2000
Shots/Sec: 10.00
Burst DPS: 8.00
Total Damage/Burst: 40
Total Shots/Burst: 50
Spin-Up Time: 0.50s
Spin-Down Time: 0.50s
Burst Duration: 5.00s
Jam Dissipation: 4.00s
Jam Duration: 4.00s
EDPS: 4.00

Quote

RAC5:

Damage/shot: 1.25
Projectile Speed: 1650
Shots/Sec: 8.00
Burst DPS: 10.00
Total Damage/Burst: 50
Total Shots/burst: 40
Spin-Up Time: 0.50s
Spin-Down Time: 0.50s
Burst Duration: 5.00s
Jam Dissipation: 4.00s
Jam Duration: 4.00s
EDPS: 5.00

Edited by The6thMessenger, 19 July 2017 - 06:09 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

But you know what, I agree, I want the RAC to be buffed, be DPS monster. But it being a DPS monster won't change the fact that staring into the enemy team increases the chances you could die

well the game needs better defensive techs too like reflective/ablative armor, blue shield, maybe hardened armor, etc.

breaking the peekaboo meta is going to take more than just fixing RACs

[The6thMessenger]

Khobai, on 19 July 2017 - 06:25 PM, said:

well the game needs better defensive techs too like reflective/ablative armor, blue shield, maybe hardened armor, etc.

breaking the peekaboo meta is going to take more than just fixing RACs

So long common sense is a thing in the game, peekaboo meta lives on.

[KodiakGW]

I like this idea. All the Terrain Republic chain weapons have that kind of ramp up in Planetside 2.

[MustrumRidcully]

It would be a good idea in my opinion.

I don't know if there were "balance" reasons to not do it like this, or if the game engine simply doesn't support a variable rate of fire (or implementing one is an arduous task best not undertaken.)

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 20 July 2017 - 05:00 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

MustrumRidcully, on 20 July 2017 - 04:59 AM, said:

I don't know if there were "balance" reasons to not do it like this, or if the game engine simply doesn't support a variable rate of fire (or implementing one is an arduous task best not undertaken.)

If forum is right, it's not an issue of engine but coders.

[Natred]

This was the original scope of the weapon, guess they had problems coding it?

Edited by Natred, 20 July 2017 - 05:29 AM.

[Sedmeister]

The6thMessenger, on 19 July 2017 - 03:06 PM, said:

Are you sure that you're not just the type that walks into fire? My team mates keep walking in front of my stream.

Nope. Just standing innocently on the corner of the tunnel opening on Crimson Strait.

And on the 5 line corner peeking on Canyon Network.

And walking up the hill in a straight line on Canyon Network to reposition. Wasn't even an enemy in sight.

Personal favourite, trading on Grim Plexus between those two pillars just right of the buildings. Quietly peeking. There first. Rocking backward and forward and "riiiiiiiiiiiiip", oh hello, I have a team mate who's just moved into position behind me with his RAC's and cored out both rear ST's and my CT.

Edited by Sedmeister, 20 July 2017 - 02:31 PM.