37 replies to this topic

[TVMA Doc]

Playing Faction lately and I've found that spawn campers are able to destroy mechs before they have finished that STUPIDLY SLOW dropship animation.

PLEASE remove that from the game. With certain groups you are lucky if you get ONE mech, then drop in 30% or lower mechs before you are released from the dropship.

[Verilligo]

Alternatively, upgrade dropship guns to naval strength?

[Khalcruth]

Well, the previous month's patch made it so that the dropships no longer shoot at enemies. Hopefully, the dropship guns will start firing again tomorrow. It won't completely stop the camping, but it will help.

[Leggin Ho]

It also encourages camping which is what we saw when they added them, I don't know what if anything can fix the issue, but adding guns or stronger guns alone is not the fix, perhaps stronger guns and a suicide timer of 60 secs if you don't leave the drop zone? Whatever they do it needs to balance both parts of the issue, folks camping in spawn and folks having to come into spawn to kill them because they are camping in spawn.

[Grus]

Verilligo, on 18 September 2017 - 12:16 PM, said:

Alternatively, upgrade dropship guns to naval strength?

this and upgrade them to Overlord class DS

[TheFallOfTheReaper]

Or make the ships guns instagib, end of spawncamping probrem solved

[Marquis De Lafayette]

While the dropships firing needs to happen, these two suggestions would help you more (based on our match against you a couple of days ago on grim)

1. Stay on wave with your team....you don't want to have an extra mech at the end (which will die instantly) and you need to share armor each wave with your team. In that match when your HHOD teammates were all dead, you had a mech left....which actually confused us for a minute as we were looking for you inside the base as you redropped....it didn't take long for us to figure out though.....remember 1 v 12's just don't go well in this game..so an extra mech does nothing more often than not.

2. Don't bring a King Crab wave 3. I would say not at all, but if you have to have it....well, wave 1 is where it belongs then. In wave 3 it can't keep up with your faster teammates and you just get isolated, which is what happened in that match.

Best of luck with your matches....except when they are against us!

[Grus]

Marquis De Lafayette, on 18 September 2017 - 02:03 PM, said:

While the dropships firing needs to happen, these two suggestions would help you more (based on our match against you a couple of days ago on grim)

1. Stay on wave with your team....you don't want to have an extra mech at the end (which will die instantly) and you need to share armor each wave with your team. In that match when your HHOD teammates were all dead, you had a mech left....which actually confused us for a minute as we were looking for you inside the base as you redropped....it didn't take long for us to figure out though.....remember 1 v 12's just don't go well in this game..so an extra mech does nothing more often than not.

2. Don't bring a King Crab wave 3. I would say not at all, but if you have to have it....well, wave 1 is where it belongs then. In wave 3 it can't keep up with your faster teammates and you just get isolated, which is what happened in that match.

Best of luck with your matches....except when they are against us!

agreed, but dude... OVERLORDS!!!

[50 50]

Heh.

Well, goes to show what a topic this is (Spawn Camping) in that almost every week a new thread on it gets started.

Siege was the only mode designed with Dropdecks in mind and even there, you can still get spawn camped though usually it's not until the later half of the match if it happens at all.
The Quick Play modes were never designed with a respawn in mind so when it was added for Faction Play, particularly for modes where the objective does not have as much of an impact, we find that spawn camping happens more.
However, Spawn Camping is more of a symptom when one team cannot maintain their line. (As I am sure we will hear about/have heard about etc etc.)

We asked and asked for Dropships to be added instead of just 'appearing' on the maps so no, do not remove them.

So there are some possible alternatives.
1. Attacking the drop zone is a tactic that has no in game function to support it. If you can deny the enemy the ability to deploy mechs, you can tilt the battle in your favour. It becomes a griefing tactic because the loony piloting the dropship continues to drop mechs into a contested drop zone, one or two at a time, where there is little hope to fight back let alone clear the zone.
Therefore option 1 is to allow the drop zones to be captured

2. Given the quick play modes were not setup for drop decks, perhaps we shouldn't use the drop decks on these modes.
ie. use the drop decks differently and restructure Faction Play.

We should have option 1 regardless.
It should just be a feature.
However, looking forward and keeping in mind what it takes to develop a new map or a new mode it is not practical to develop it twice. Once so it works in quick play, then redo it again for Faction Play to try and cater for the drop decks.
It makes a lot more sense to not use drop decks for any of the quick play modes/maps so as soon as one is developed it can be ported straight into Faction Play.
Getting more maps is something the community screams for.
Getting more modes is something we would like to see as well.
So if we want that, we need to make the development process focused so there is no doubling up.
Therefore, put some functionality into Faction Play that changes the way we use the drop decks that not only resolves the spawn camping issue, but at the same time adds some depth and purpose to the mode.
See this post:
https://mwomercs.com...-it-a-campaign/

We can leave Siege as it is.
But I would also request we request another Faction Play only mode with it's own maps that is specifically designed with the drop deck in mind. Something that we can select our drop zones... as has already been raised with the dev team, and something with multiple meaning full objectives... which is why Conquest is seen as pretty good in Faction Play.
The longer game modes are fun, so some sort of mode that was more continuous would be brilliant.

Edited by 50 50, 18 September 2017 - 02:47 PM.

[Leggin Ho]

There will be no new mode created for FP, if folks that begged to add the QP maps to get 4 drops are the ones complaining them please either let them stay in reg QP with no respawns or play FP which has respawns and stop the other team from overrunning their spawn. if you want option 1 added I'm even good with that so long as the max rewards are applied to the winning team that manages to take over all 3 spawn points.

You would see the same thing is reg QP had respawns and it's the only reason you hear folks in here complaining about FP, they don't know how to use teamwork and as such should not jump into FP where due to the fact you have respawns teamwork is OP.

Edited by Leggin Ho, 18 September 2017 - 03:51 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Leggin Ho, on 18 September 2017 - 01:31 PM, said:

It also encourages camping which is what we saw when they added them, I don't know what if anything can fix the issue, but adding guns or stronger guns alone is not the fix, perhaps stronger guns and a suicide timer of 60 secs if you don't leave the drop zone? Whatever they do it needs to balance both parts of the issue, folks camping in spawn and folks having to come into spawn to kill them because they are camping in spawn.

Ye the number of groups I've see barely leave the DZ... Even on maps like Polar, forcing us to spend the first 5mins of the match walking... Is mind numbing.


The fix for DZ camping is simple - design the walls properly. If they put them on a 45 degree incline (towards the centre where the mechs drop) then that would stop players camping the DZ walls until a ship flies off. As that is what most people do, hide and then jump in and clean up. Angled walls, allowing ships to shoot mechs much easier, solves that instantly.

Again such a simple oversight on PGIs behalf that they could've had feedback on, if they asked the community prior.

[justcallme A S H]

Marquis De Lafayette, on 18 September 2017 - 02:03 PM, said:

While the dropships firing needs to happen, these two suggestions would help you more (based on our match against you a couple of days ago on grim)

1. Stay on wave with your team....you don't want to have an extra mech at the end (which will die instantly) and you need to share armor each wave with your team. In that match when your HHOD teammates were all dead, you had a mech left....which actually confused us for a minute as we were looking for you inside the base as you redropped....it didn't take long for us to figure out though.....remember 1 v 12's just don't go well in this game..so an extra mech does nothing more often than not.

2. Don't bring a King Crab wave 3. I would say not at all, but if you have to have it....well, wave 1 is where it belongs then. In wave 3 it can't keep up with your faster teammates and you just get isolated, which is what happened in that match.

Best of luck with your matches....except when they are against us!

See this is what I love the most. "T1" pilots coming to the FP forum & complaining about issues in FP. Yet once the actual detail comes out - they are the problem.

KGC 3rd? Bad play
Out of sync with your wave? (ie you were hiding a 1st/2nd wave mech). Bad play.

Until players start to accept responsibility for being the problem, learn from very bad mistakes, the real problems in FP will never be addressed.

[Carl Vickers]

ShadowHimself, on 18 September 2017 - 01:44 PM, said:

Or make the ships guns instagib, end of spawncamping probrem solved

This is why bad ideas are bad, what happens when a team doesnt leave its spawn area to try and use your bad idea to get a victory?

Hell to the no on your idea.

[justcallme A S H]

ShadowHimself, on 18 September 2017 - 01:44 PM, said:

Or make the ships guns instagib, end of spawncamping probrem solved

You have a lot more to worry about than Spawncamping - ie, the reason you are being camped in the first place.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 18 September 2017 - 04:03 PM.

[Davegt27]

the problem is the players

they are constantly crying about something so PGI never works on real issues

over time PGI gets worn down and does not even want to talk about FP

at one point the drop ships where so strong they would head shot you
then they flipped and did nothing
then back to being strong

and so it has been

[Grus]

Carl Vickers, on 18 September 2017 - 04:01 PM, said:

This is why bad ideas are bad, what happens when a team doesnt leave its spawn area to try and use your bad idea to get a victory?

Hell to the no on your idea.

but but... Overlord DS's.. *tear*

justcallme A S H, on 18 September 2017 - 03:54 PM, said:

Ye the number of groups I've see barely leave the DZ... Even on maps like Polar, forcing us to spend the first 5mins of the match walking... Is mind numbing.


The fix for DZ camping is simple - design the walls properly. If they put them on a 45 degree incline (towards the centre where the mechs drop) then that would stop players camping the DZ walls until a ship flies off. As that is what most people do, hide and then jump in and clean up. Angled walls, allowing ships to shoot mechs much easier, solves that instantly.

Again such a simple oversight on PGIs behalf that they could've had feedback on, if they asked the community prior.

and change the D'S to a Overlord class, add they touch down and flare their eng, everyone in a close proximity to the DZ gets a heat spike. "Immersion"

[Commander A9]

Tomorrow's patch will allegedly negate damage to mechs while they are still in the Dropship.

It won't fix anything however...

[justcallme A S H]

OMG... lol.

We're taking about being shot, before landing from dropship.
Not the random leg damage bug.

[Electron Junkie]

Capturing and disabling a drop zone (ala conquest) no more drop zones and you loose... Could work if the drop ships weapons were buffed. But we would still see 12 man assault rushes to close the drop zones rather than play objectives. And as the drop zones decrease the spawn camping goes up.

For the most part spawn camping can be fixed with more drop zones and stronger drop ship weapons.
Think 12 drop zones per team, per map, with the drop ship heading to the least occupied drop zone with multiple mechs. This way an enemy team can't camp them all and the losing side can (hopefully) reorganize a push. But this would require a map redesign (sprocket like and much, much bigger) which would mean match time would have to increase at least 10min+.

Honestly, spawn camping is not so much the problem, but the symptom of matches that are lopsided due to matchmaker / lack of player base. These matches would have ended with similar results either way, but at least it would be a bit more fun for the losers.

[Leggin Ho]

Electron Junkie, on 19 September 2017 - 10:06 AM, said:

Honestly, spawn camping is not so much the problem, but the symptom of matches that are lopsided due to matchmaker / lack of player base. These matches would have ended with similar results either way, but at least it would be a bit more fun for the losers.

I'll agree that the player base is smaller, but as there is no matchmaker that's not the issue, timid players that refuse to form up or push together are the problem, they hide in or close to the spawn and get wreaked then get killed in spawn because the attackers are just outside when they killed them last time.