69 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Quote

"I think one team should have better Mechs that are faster, stronger, and more powerful, and the other team should have slower, weaker Mechs with inferior weapons. That way the first team has more opportunities for more kills, they get to shoot at more targets, and they get to have more fun. The second team gets to slog around with their inferior equipment and they have fewer opportunities to score kills."

12v10 where IS has at least has a chance of winning sounds a hell of a lot better than 12v12 where clans win most of the time.

the problem with your 12v10 assumption is that it assumes the current 12v12 balance is better, its not.

12v10 with clan nerfs reversed would be better balanced than what we have now.

the only way 12v12 is gonna work is if clans are massively nerfed, even morso than they already have been, and no clan player wants that. people are already leaving clans and going to IS because of all the nerfs and the lack of new tech.

Edited by Khobai, 29 July 2017 - 12:28 PM.

[Dogstar]

While I suspect that 10v12 would be a disaster I think that PGI should at least give it a try and see if it works out, but if so then they also need to try 4v4, 8v8, and any other combinations that people would like to try out

Khobai, on 29 July 2017 - 10:42 AM, said:

people are already leaving clans and going to IS because of all the nerfs and the lack of new tech.

But the people doing that are pretty stupid if they think that somehow IS tech suddenly got better than Clan tech. Ton for ton Clan mechs are still that bit better (although there are exceptions)

Edited by Dogstar, 29 July 2017 - 10:47 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

While I suspect that 10v12 would be a disaster

12v12 has been a disaster

[vandalhooch]

Dogstar, on 29 July 2017 - 10:45 AM, said:

While I suspect that 10v12 would be a disaster I think that PGI should at least give it a try and see if it works out,

It was tried. Playtesters ran many many drops in private lobbies. It was tried when Clan mechs were still in their initial overpowered, just released, state. The 10-man team still got wrecked.

Quote

but if so then they also need to try 4v4, 8v8, and any other combinations that people would like to try out

But the people doing that are pretty stupid if they think that somehow IS tech suddenly got better than Clan tech. Ton for ton Clan mechs are still that bit better (although there are exceptions)

[Fleeb the Mad]

Threads proposing uneven contests between superior individual machines and mass quantity or tonnage?

It almost sounds like those people might enjoy faction warfare modes in which the IS has a substantial drop tonnage advantage.

There we have it. Problem solved! I'm sure that FW queue has been brimming.

[Mystere]

El Bandito, on 29 July 2017 - 08:15 AM, said:

I think you were triggered the most.

Hot damn!

[Mystere]

El Bandito, on 29 July 2017 - 08:26 AM, said:

Nope. All this will do is to skew player population to 4:1 Clan favor. Most tryhards will go Clan to pad their stats, and the rest will certainly not gonna wish to be their punching bag, thus heading to Clans as well. Which leaves only neckbeards, and masochists to stay as IS.

That just means there will be more Clan vs. Clan as opposed to IS vs. Clan and IS vs. IS fights. As such, I really don't see the problem.with people getting to play the Mechs and side they want.

WrathOfDeadguy, on 29 July 2017 - 08:48 AM, said:

The same thing would happen if PGI made QP asymmetrical.

It's not a problem if the setup is forced Clan vs. IS, Clan vs. Clan, and IS vs. IS based on player availability. It's the little detail these crybabies whining "selfish" keep on conveniently ignoring.

Edited by Mystere, 29 July 2017 - 03:06 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

Khobai, on 29 July 2017 - 10:42 AM, said:

12v10 where IS has at least has a chance of winning sounds a hell of a lot better than 12v12 where clans win most of the time.

um 12v12 where IS wins some times and Clan wins some times,
is better than 10v12 where Clan rarely to never never wins,

Khobai, on 29 July 2017 - 10:42 AM, said:

the problem with your 12v10 assumption is that it assumes the current 12v12 balance is better, its not.

but it is as you can choose any 2 mechs and work to balance them to each other,
any 2 mechs are just as viable as each other, and just as useful, thats the balance im looking toward,

Khobai, on 29 July 2017 - 10:42 AM, said:

12v10 with clan nerfs reversed would be better balanced than what we have now.

no it wouldnt be, PGI already tested this, before Clan mechs were nerfed, and IS had a 80% win average,
even with the Full Tech advantage of Clan mechs, 2extra IS mechs tilted balance heavily in IS Favor,

Khobai, on 29 July 2017 - 10:42 AM, said:

the only way 12v12 is gonna work is if clans are massively nerfed, even morso than they already have been, and no clan player wants that. people are already leaving clans and going to IS because of all the nerfs and the lack of new tech.

right now things are mostly balance, 1:1 balance is close and it came with out nerfing the Damage of Clan tech,
it came with IS upgrades still being weaker than Clan, with Clan weapons being Smaller and Lighter than IS,
PGI is giving us balance, without changing the Smaller Lighter more Damaging Clans hold True in TT,

[Mystere]

Dogstar, on 29 July 2017 - 10:45 AM, said:

While I suspect that 10v12 would be a disaster I think that PGI should at least give it a try and see if it works out, but if so then they also need to try 4v4, 8v8, and any other combinations that people would like to try out

There were 12 vs.10 tests done. The clans were consistently wiped.

So much for the OP's "selfish" argument.

vandalhooch, on 29 July 2017 - 11:06 AM, said:

It was tried. Playtesters ran many many drops in private lobbies. It was tried when Clan mechs were still in their initial overpowered, just released, state. The 10-man team still got wrecked.

Well, I am glad at least one person remembers.

Khobai, on 29 July 2017 - 10:46 AM, said:

12v12 has been a disaster

What is the definition of "insanity" again?

Edited by Mystere, 29 July 2017 - 03:15 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Dakota1000, on 29 July 2017 - 08:52 AM, said:

It already is. PGI made the premium options available to all without premium time active, you can just set full teams to no and setup some lore based builds between the sides, 12 IS mechs, maybe using lower tech options such as single heat sinks, vs 10 Clan mechs.

12 IS 'Mechs with the quirks turned off (that is an option) against 10 Clan 'Mechs.

Mystere, on 29 July 2017 - 03:13 PM, said:

What is the definition of "insanity" again?

I would point out that you also keep saying the same things, expecting something to change.

[Davers]

davoodoo, on 29 July 2017 - 08:18 AM, said:

Im the someone who would play those slower, weaker mechs with inferior weapons.
Seriously, assuming that just because you ask for clans to have better mechs means you must be clan player is just ********.

I seriously believe that it would skew balance towards is, you cant even imagine how much those 2 extra mech and 20% extra tonnage would change things.

Just think of all the buffs the Clan mechs would need to balance them.

[Mystere]

Davers, on 29 July 2017 - 03:18 PM, said:

Just think of all the buffs the Clan mechs would need to balance them.

Just think of how suddenly the "Clan players are better" argument will suddenly hold true if they do start winning.

[Prototelis]

Lore ****** generally have all of the worst ideas for the game.

[Mystere]

Yeonne Greene, on 29 July 2017 - 03:17 PM, said:

I would point out that you also keep saying the same things, expecting something to change.

Repeatedly saying something often to enact some form of change is a whole lot different than doing something over and over again but with the same results. The latter is the definition if insanity. The former is being a gadfly or prophet.

[Y E O N N E]

Mystere, on 29 July 2017 - 03:23 PM, said:

Repeatedly saying something often to enact some form of change is a whole lot different than doing something over and over again but with the same results. The latter is the definition if insanity. The former is being a gadfly or prophet.

There is zero technical difference at all. It's an action being attempted, the same action no less, over and over while expecting a particular result that just isn't happening.

[Spheroid]

This argument about people choosing the best damage mech is erroneous.

Anyone who is dedicated NARCer or capper is forgoing substantial FP income for the good of the team and the win.

In FP the amount of wins is the epeen trophy not damage per pilot. If stat whoring is subverting the purpose of FP, then those leaderboards need to be deleted.

Also playing for money is thing. With huge 50% contract bonus for the new factions I really don't care about which combination of mechs be them UP or OP results in a win.

You think tonnage will still not be altered to result in a 50/50 win rate even with 10 v 12? It doesn't matter.

Edited by Spheroid, 29 July 2017 - 03:31 PM.

[Mystere]

Spheroid, on 29 July 2017 - 03:30 PM, said:

If stat whoring is subverting the purpose of FP, then those leaderboards need to be deleted.

Amen!

Yeonne Greene, on 29 July 2017 - 03:28 PM, said:

There is zero technical difference at all. It's an action being attempted, the same action no less, over and over while expecting a particular result that just isn't happening.

Well, the biblical prophets were considered insane at one point in time or another. I don't see a problem.

[C4NC3R]

Prosperity Park, on 29 July 2017 - 07:42 AM, said:

Stars versus Lances and 10 versus 12 are selfish ideas from selfish people.

"I think one team should have better Mechs that are faster, stronger, and more powerful, and the other team should have slower, weaker Mechs with inferior weapons. That way the first team has more opportunities for more kills, they get to shoot at more targets, and they get to have more fun. The second team gets to slog around with their inferior equipment and they have fewer opportunities to score kills.

That's totally fair and balanced!"

That's what you sound like.

Why 10 vs 12 if we got Alpha, Bravo and Charlie... it means 15 vs 12, less waiting time in the queue.

[Y E O N N E]

Mystere, on 29 July 2017 - 03:49 PM, said:

Well, the biblical prophets were considered insane at one point in time or another. I don't see a problem.

The problem is simply the pot calling the kettle black, is all.

[MNML86]

As one of those who supports10 vs 12 as per lore and have been insulted by others for wanting to follow lore.

What is the point playing a game with such a rich backstory when you are unwilling to follow the setting?

Go play battlefield, counterstrike or some other FPS game with no backstory, weapons and armor being the same but using a different skin for them.

I play clan as well. The so called victories we won to me are empty ones since we had every advantage. It would be more strange if we had lost. The bar for the Tukkayid event was completely blue most of the time.