113 replies to this topic

[InfinityBall]

Methanoid, on 30 July 2017 - 07:16 PM, said:

imho a "Light" gauss for a light mech should differ from a "Light" gauss for an assault, there should be varying grades of weapons for the mech weight classes with weight/slot and stat adjustments more suitable to each weight class of mech to ensure an assault couldnt just equip craptons of the light mechs variant, they wouldnt even have the option.

A light gauss for a light mech should weigh less, take less slots, do less damage, have shorter range etc than the light gauss an assault can wield, the same should apply to several other "heavy/high requirement" weapons but not all.

so are you also going to introduce new laser sizes for each mech type? What's the difference?

[R Valentine]

Increase damage to 9 and dump the charge. Seriously, no weapon with damage less than 15 meeds a charge up.

[davoodoo]

Methanoid, on 30 July 2017 - 07:16 PM, said:

imho a "Light" gauss for a light mech should differ from a "Light" gauss for an assault, there should be varying grades of weapons for the mech weight classes with weight/slot and stat adjustments more suitable to each weight class of mech to ensure an assault couldnt just equip craptons of the light mechs variant, they wouldnt even have the option.

A light gauss for a light mech should weigh less, take less slots, do less damage, have shorter range etc than the light gauss an assault can wield, the same should apply to several other "heavy/high requirement" weapons but not all.

Sure if it wasnt


and we got rid of mech builder as it would be redundant, instead going back to mw4 interface.

Edited by davoodoo, 31 July 2017 - 01:00 AM.

[DrxAbstract]

I was a bit miffed to find the Rule of Two firing limit imposed on the LGR because it's a little asinine to restrict the LGR in this way; 2xGR at 30 Damage, 30 Tons, 14 Slots and 2 Hard Points is allowed where 3xLGR at 24 Damage, 36 Tons, 15 Slots and 3 Hard Points is not... Really PGI?!

I could accept this limitation when applied to various pairings of the Gauss Rifles in comparison to the baseline 2xGR performance, but firing 3xLGR simultaneously should be allowed.

[MustrumRidcully]

Unimpressive and underpowered would be my opinion.
I think the suggestions on how to improve the Light Gauss Rifle have already been made, so there isn't much too add.

[Yellonet]

shorter charge and faster cooldown would make it viable.

[Paigan]

Steel Claws, on 30 July 2017 - 08:02 AM, said:

o I've tried these and my opinion...They just weigh too much for the damage they do. All the other gauss rifles do at least one point damage per ton. LG is .667 damage per ton.They either need to drop the weight to 8 tons or increase the damage to 10-12. There is just no compelling reason to take them.

Have you ever compared the "damage per ton" value of a medium laser to that of a large laser?
Sorry, but "damage per ton" is a fundamentally irrelevant value.

There's
- damage
- cooldown
- duration / velocity
- range
- heat
- weight
(plus minor ones like damage per ton of ammo, slot size, etc.)

You have to take ALL of them into account to properly compare weapons.

At the very least, you have to compare DPS/T, not just damage.
The Gauss Rifle has 0.17 DPS/T, the Light Gauss Rifle has 0.18 DPS/T.

The Light Gauss rifle also has higher range.
If you try to use a longer ranged weapon as a replacement for a shorter ranged weapon, of course you will be disappointed.
Guess where the error lies.

[R Valentine]

Paigan, on 31 July 2017 - 04:02 AM, said:

Have you ever compared the "damage per ton" value of a medium laser to that of a large laser?
Sorry, but "damage per ton" is a fundamentally irrelevant value.

There's
- damage
- cooldown
- duration / velocity
- range
- heat
- weight
(plus minor ones like damage per ton of ammo, slot size, etc.)

You have to take ALL of them into account to properly compare weapons.

At the very least, you have to compare DPS/T, not just damage.
The Gauss Rifle has 0.17 DPS/T, the Light Gauss Rifle has 0.18 DPS/T.

The Light Gauss rifle also has higher range.
If you try to use a longer ranged weapon as a replacement for a shorter ranged weapon, of course you will be disappointed.
Guess where the error lies.

Oh please, it's barely longer range than a regular Gauss Rifle, but only doing half the damage makes the range argument nil. You'll never inflict any meaningful amount of damage with LGR before whoever you're shooting at closes the distance with all of their guns that do more than 8 damage.

[Escef]

Kiran Yagami, on 31 July 2017 - 06:05 AM, said:

You'll never inflict any meaningful amount of damage with LGR before whoever you're shooting at closes the distance with all of their guns that do more than 8 damage.

Except ranged standoffs happen in this game.

[PAYWALL]

Tried to boat 4 of them on a mauler and put it in my defending dropdeck. It can be useful for that because you get a tad more dps and better range. Did 900+ dmg with that mauler defending the first wave on emerald taiga but a er-LL battlemaster or banshee would have been better. If we get a hot siege map with similar layout, this build could be viable.

An other build i tried was a similiar build to the mighty b33fs ghillie enforcer with stealth armor. But my substitute mech, the phoenix hawk, only can fit light gauss in that hand actuator arm. Only useful for trolling on dark maps and most of the times you don't know if its dark or not. Only Mining and Terra Therma have some dark spots...but very situational. And then you also need to stay in stealth and you only can fire your 8 dmg rounds.

[0bsidion]

I agree it could use some tweaking. I think the charge mechanic could be dropped entirely. It made sense for the GR, which could deliver 15 damage at a significant range for very little heat, so obviously it needed something to tone it down, but at 8 damage the LGR isn't quite in the same ballpark.

[Paigan]

Kiran Yagami, on 31 July 2017 - 06:05 AM, said:

Oh please, it's barely longer range than a regular Gauss Rifle, but only doing half the damage makes the range argument nil. You'll never inflict any meaningful amount of damage with LGR before whoever you're shooting at closes the distance with all of their guns that do more than 8 damage.

Well. You can perfectly argue that the product of damage, cooldown and range does not justify the weight.
That's would be a completely different story and much more reasonable that argueing about some irrelevant "damage per ton" value as in the post I quoted.

That being said:
Again, the Light Gauss has higher DPS/T, shorter cooldown (meaning more flexibility) AND more range as a Normal/Medium Gauss. If it had the same cooldown as the Medium Gauss, it would have 12 damage. But make no mistake: 8 damage at its faster cooldown is the SAME dps as 12 damage at a longer cooldown would be.

I normally never play IS, but I built myself a dual Light Gauss Cataphract and while it is surely not the best Mech out there, I found the light Gauss really nice.

Edited by Paigan, 31 July 2017 - 08:46 AM.

[R Valentine]

Paigan, on 31 July 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

Well. You can perfectly argue that the product of damage, cooldown and range does not justify the weight.
That's would be a completely different story and much more reasonable that argueing about some irrelevant "damage per ton" value as in the post I quoted.

That being said:
Again, the Light Gauss has higher DPS/T, shorter cooldown (meaning more flexibility) AND more range as a Normal/Medium Gauss. If it had the same cooldown as the Medium Gauss, it would have 12 damage. But make no mistake: 8 damage at its faster cooldown is the SAME dps as 12 damage at a longer cooldown would be.

I normally never play IS, but I built myself a dual Light Gauss Cataphract and while it is surely not the best Mech out there, I found the light Gauss really nice.

The entire concept makes no sense, though. Why would a DPS weapon have a charge time?

The current meta is all about high alpha strike, not about DPS. DPS requires you to have face time, and face time = death unless you can move stupidly fast like the Linebacker. The DPS numbers are also lying to you, because they don't account for charge up time. Even if you held the trigger down the entire match and always discharged right when the reticle turned green, you'd still have a longer time between shots than just the CD. That charge up time can't be preloaded during cool down. And that doesn't account for corrections you make once charge up is complete during the second or so you have to get the shot off. Again, your DPS is lying to you, so even if the meta was DPS, the light Gauss wouldn't be in it.

[Metus regem]

Steel Claws, on 30 July 2017 - 08:02 AM, said:

o I've tried these and my opinion...They just weigh too much for the damage they do. All the other gauss rifles do at least one point damage per ton. LG is .667 damage per ton.They either need to drop the weight to 8 tons or increase the damage to 10-12. There is just no compelling reason to take them.

It's funny, when it was announced, so many people were clamming it would be a great addition to MWO, myself and a few other were saying that it would be lackluster at best and a down right c-bill trap at worst....

As it stands, just like it is in TT, there are better uses of 13t minimum.. (weapon+1t ammo). If an IS mech can scrape the 13t to use a LGR, they might as well find another few tons and take the normal GR. I mean a 3t savings for 90m range and a slightly smaller crit requirement does not balance out the 55% damage reduction. In TT by the time (both C-bills and era) you can get a LGR, you are better off finding a CDS merchant to sell you a cGR, or replacing it with an AC/10.

As far as MWO goes, I offered an idea that makes it at least interesting.

LGR - Metus

Tons: 12
Crits: 5
DMG: 8
Heat: 1
Optimal Range: 750
Max Range: 2250
Speed: 2250m/s
Recycle: 3.0s - 3.5s
Charge time: 0.1s - 0.2s
Ammo/ton: 20/ton


This version would give it an actual place with 3 times max range and hitting that max range in one full second of travel time. While the short charge time and recycle time would give it a near snap fire and quick recharge cycle, like this it begins to look like a competitive option against the IS AC/10.

[R Valentine]

Metus regem, on 31 July 2017 - 09:47 AM, said:

It's funny, when it was announced, so many people were clamming it would be a great addition to MWO, myself and a few other were saying that it would be lackluster at best and a down right c-bill trap at worst....

As it stands, just like it is in TT, there are better uses of 13t minimum.. (weapon+1t ammo). If an IS mech can scrape the 13t to use a LGR, they might as well find another few tons and take the normal GR. I mean a 3t savings for 90m range and a slightly smaller crit requirement does not balance out the 55% damage reduction. In TT by the time (both C-bills and era) you can get a LGR, you are better off finding a CDS merchant to sell you a cGR, or replacing it with an AC/10.

As far as MWO goes, I offered an idea that makes it at least interesting.

LGR - Metus

Tons: 12
Crits: 5
DMG: 8
Heat: 1
Optimal Range: 750
Max Range: 2250
Speed: 2250m/s
Recycle: 3.0s - 3.5s
Charge time: 0.1s - 0.2s
Ammo/ton: 20/ton


This version would give it an actual place with 3 times max range and hitting that max range in one full second of travel time. While the short charge time and recycle time would give it a near snap fire and quick recharge cycle, like this it begins to look like a competitive option against the IS AC/10.

What do I care fit if the gun can shoot 2km when the game can barely even load terrain that far away? The only map you'd ever have that LOS on is Polar, and screw that map. Any other map I'd rather have 9 or 10 damage per shot. Hell, I'd rather have that on Polar.

[HGAK47]

After piloting quad gauss Kodiaks for quite a while, I was curious to try out a quad light gauss mauler.... Pretty pathetic in comparison. Sure the faster fire rate is nice but they just do not put out enough damage for the tonnage.

[MechaBattler]

What they should do is remove the charge altogether. It'll make it a more attractive weapon for poking from cover. Increase ammo per ton to increase it's damage per ton value. While also increasing weight savings. Lower cooldown to 3.25 seconds for better dps. It'll make it an overall a more appealing weapon.

[Escef]

Kiran Yagami, on 31 July 2017 - 09:54 AM, said:

What do I care fit if the gun can shoot 2km when the game can barely even load terrain that far away? The only map you'd ever have that LOS on is Polar, and screw that map. Any other map I'd rather have 9 or 10 damage per shot. Hell, I'd rather have that on Polar.

I regularly get LOS on enemies 1.5 clicks out on Tourmaline. Triple range grants the ability to deal something that resembles real damage at that range. Most other weapons either can't touch people at that range or are barely doing enough damage to boil some paint off.

[Gas Guzzler]

Yellonet, on 31 July 2017 - 03:39 AM, said:

shorter charge and faster cooldown would make it viable.

Shorter charge? Its already pretty short, I don't think that is what it needs. More damage would be better than both. Even with a faster cooldown its not going to have the DPS to justify staring, compared to a UAC2 boat.

MechaBattler, on 31 July 2017 - 10:03 AM, said:

What they should do is remove the charge altogether. It'll make it a more attractive weapon for poking from cover. Increase ammo per ton to increase it's damage per ton value. While also increasing weight savings. Lower cooldown to 3.25 seconds for better dps. It'll make it an overall a more appealing weapon.

Honestly the LGR has a low charge time and a long charge-hold time... I don't think its worth removing the charge. Preferrable to buff it in other ways AND let you fire 3 at once.

[MechaBattler]

I found the charge to be so short as to take some getting use to. It just felt like I was releasing too soon or holding too long.