73 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

With the -C variant you can have a total of 6 E hardpoints in the torso and then dual gauss in the arms similar to the Deathstrike. A little short on tonnage for LPLs but dual ER LL or HLL and 3-4 ER ML with 18-19 DHS is possible.

Other options include a total of 6 missile hardpoints spread across 4 components, energy everywhere, and ballistics in 3 of the 4 components (LA, RA, RT). -H has one in the LT but that is more than 5 variants so I don't know how they would squeeze it in.

I request that they put the -H variant in as well... that LT ballistic hardpoint would be really nice. Maybe as an early adopter?

[Athom83]

[FupDup]

I don't really see much promise in the Turkey since it has the same overall mobility as a Dire Whale, but with less pod space, fewer critslots, and generally fewer harpdoints or more spread out hardpoints.

PGI could in theory give it better base agility than the Whale to give it a reason to exist, but I don't like depending on the whims of the Balancing Overlord™.

Frankly I think that the Dire Whale should have never gotten JJs to begin with, so that then the Turkey's permanent jets would actually be a distinguishing feature.


Spreadsheet for amusement purposes:

Edited by FupDup, 31 July 2017 - 11:34 AM.

[Luminis]

I'm not entirely sure I need another dual Gauss Clan Assault in my life. Nor another dakka Clan Assault, or another missile boat Assault, for that matter.

Not that I'm opposed to the Turkina in particular, but if it's got to be a Clan Assault, I'd much rather have the Warhammer IIC. I much prefer BattleMechs to Omnis and I'd rather have a light Assault. Either that or the Bane for some utterly stupid dakka boating.

However, I think the one weight class Clans are lacking most is Lights. Will be much better if / when we get the Piranha, but I'd definitely like another 25 tonner, too. Maybe the Fire Falcon or Locust IIC.

[Gas Guzzler]

Athom83, on 31 July 2017 - 11:12 AM, said:

y tho?

FupDup, on 31 July 2017 - 11:17 AM, said:

I don't really see much promise in the Turkey since it has the same overall mobility as a Dire Whale, but with less pod space, fewer critslots, and generally fewer harpdoints or more spread out hardpoints.

PGI could in theory give it better base agility than the Whale to give it a reason to exist, but I don't like depending on the whims of the Balancing Overlord™.

Frankly I think that the Dire Whale should have never gotten JJs to begin with, so that then the Turkey's permanent jets would actually be a distinguishing feature.


Going to post a spreadsheet of it soon.

I think its guaranteed to have better agility than the Whale, probably on par with the BNC-3S or the Mauler if I had to guess, somewhere in there. So... a modest upgrade at best.

Anyway, it would be nice to have a second 95 tonner on the Clan side that is different than the current one (Executioner).

[Trenchbird]

The Executioner is pretty much a better choice than a Turkina anyways, IMO. It fulfills the role of the agile Clan assault (The Gladiator is the "speedy" Clan assault). We don't need another agile Clan assault, or another gunboat Clan Assault, and the Turkina is both of those.

[Khobai]

id rather see the direwolf buffed than turkina added to the game

give direwolf structure quirks and its ecm variant

[Gas Guzzler]

Catten Hart, on 31 July 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:

The Executioner is pretty much a better choice than a Turkina anyways, IMO. It fulfills the role of the agile Clan assault (The Gladiator is the "speedy" Clan assault). We don't need another agile Clan assault, or another gunboat Clan Assault, and the Turkina is both of those.

Eh, for that matter, we shouldn't have added the SNV or the Mad Cat Mk. II then I guess.. ??

Khobai, on 31 July 2017 - 11:48 AM, said:

id rather see the direwolf buffed than turkina added to the game

give direwolf structure quirks and its ecm variant

Don't think there is a reason to not do both.

[Khobai]

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Don't think there is a reason to not do both.

Theres a reason not to add the Turkina, because it doesnt bring anything new to the game.

Its just a worse Direwolf with hardwired jumpjets

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 31 July 2017 - 11:57 AM, said:

Theres a reason not to add the Turkina, because it doesnt bring anything new to the game.

Its just a worse Direwolf with hardwired jumpjets

What does the Nightstar bring to the game?

Also, first Clan assault with 6 Missile Hardpoints

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 31 July 2017 - 12:01 PM.

[Athom83]

Gas Guzzler, on 31 July 2017 - 11:39 AM, said:

y tho?

Gas Guzzler, on 31 July 2017 - 11:58 AM, said:

What does the Nightstar bring to the game?

[Gas Guzzler]

Athom83, on 31 July 2017 - 12:01 PM, said:

[Athom83]

Gas Guzzler, on 31 July 2017 - 11:58 AM, said:

Also, first Clan assault with 6 Missile Hardpoints

Key word is "assault". All the other clan mechs with 6 missiles ruin the game for everyone else, so you want to add another?

[Gas Guzzler]

Athom83, on 31 July 2017 - 12:04 PM, said:

Athom83, on 31 July 2017 - 12:06 PM, said:

Key word is "assault". All the other clan mechs with 6 missiles ruin the game for everyone else, so you want to add another?

He wanted it to add something new. That is something new. I'm not that interested in running 6 LRM15s but hey who am I to judge.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 31 July 2017 - 12:07 PM.

[Khobai]

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What does the Nightstar bring to the game?

400 engine cap assault that can use dual heavy ballistics. Its something no other IS assault can do. Its basically the IS equivalent of the Deathstrike.

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Also, first Clan assault with 6 Missile Hardpoints

If they added the Direwolf-C it would also be capable of having 6 missile hardpoints as well as ECM.

Again there is no reason to add the Turkina. Its just a worse Direwolf in every way.

Just give the Direwolf some structure buffs, give us the Direwolf-C, and its the only omni assault clans need.


The thing Clans ACTUALLY need right now though is the 20 ton pirahna so we can actually make microlaser and the new machine guns useful. Having a 20 tonner would let Clans frontload their dropdecks more too since they dont have a 20 tonner now.

And maybe later on the Kingfisher could make an interesting addition. If they buffed STD engines and gave the Kingfisher some hefty armor quirks and weapon quirks. The Kingfisher could potentially be the toughest Clan assault mech. Even that brings more to the game than the Turkina.

Edited by Khobai, 31 July 2017 - 12:24 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 31 July 2017 - 12:13 PM, said:

400 engine cap assault that can use dual heavy ballistics. Its something no other IS assault can do. Its basically the IS equivalent of the Deathstrike.

Except for the lack of useable energy hardpoints? You can bring dual gauss and at most 2 large class lasers on the 400 engine cap variant. That variant also cannot bring AC20s/UAC20s. There is no comparison with the Deathstrike, or the Mad Cat Mk.II as a whole which outclasses the Nightstar in every way. Ironically, the Turkina would also outperform the Nightstar based on hardpoint availability alone.

What use is a 400 engine cap when your XL engine is a death trap? Can't think of any remotely viable builds that would make use of that engine cap.

Khobai, on 31 July 2017 - 12:13 PM, said:

If they added the Direwolf-C it would also be capable of having 6 missile hardpoints as well as ECM.

Again there is no reason to add the Turkina. Its just a worse Direwolf in every way.

Just give the Direwolf some structure buffs, give us the Direwolf-C, and its the only omni assault clans need.

We don't know enough to make that judgement, as the geometry and hardpoint heights would be different. I would see most of the Turkina's hardpoints being about cockpit level, and aside from weapon pods there isn't as much mech above cockpit, unlike the massive hood that the Dire has. It would be different in some ways, and if it had better agility and larger torso twist range it would have some worthwhile tradeoffs.

Also, would it have 6 missiles? The head and CT don't really count as you can't put LRM15/20s there.

Khobai, on 31 July 2017 - 12:13 PM, said:

And maybe later on the Kingfisher could make an interesting addition. If they buffed STD engines and gave the Kingfisher some hefty armor quirks and weapon quirks. The Kingfisher could potentially be the toughest Clan assault mech. Even that brings more to the game than the Turkina.

Okay now you are just trying to throw me a bone.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 31 July 2017 - 12:30 PM.

[Khobai]

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Except for the lack of useable energy hardpoints?

dunno what youre talking about,

NSR-9FC has 2 ballistic and 5 energy

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What use is a 400 engine cap when your XL engine is a death trap? Can't think of any remotely viable builds that would make use of that engine cap.

you dont have to use a 400 engine. you can use a smaller LFE engine instead. But it will still go faster than other IS assaults while having dual heavy ballistics.

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We don't know enough to make that judgement, as the geometry and hardpoint heights would be different.

um have you seen the turkina? no way its geometry is going to be better than the direwolfs. and the direwolfs ballistic hardpoints are already sufficiently high.

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Also, would it have 6 missiles? The head and CT don't really count as you can't put LRM15/20s there.

youre not going to put six LRM15s/20s on a mech anyway. thats not really a viable build. If you use six LRM launchers its going to be smaller launchers like 5s or 10s for the much tighter spread, which will fit.

and it would actually have upto 7 missile hardpoints assuming they put 2 missile hardpoints in each arm for the Direwolf-C, which they should, since itd have to compete against a 4E, 1B arm

Edited by Khobai, 31 July 2017 - 12:38 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 31 July 2017 - 12:30 PM, said:

dunno what youre talking about,

NSR-9FC has 2 ballistic and 5 energy

Right, and put anything larger than an LB10 in the arms and you only get one slot to use, so you only get 1 ER ML in each arm, head is another 1 slotter, and then your side torso, you can have 2 LLs if you want.

It gets more fun when you add up the tonnage of dual gauss, 2 LLs, and 3 ER MLs, with 4-5 tons of ammo, and then see what engine size you get to use... You end up going dire whale speed unless you go XL in which case you might be able to get up to an XL300. Its a joke. IS assaults suck, all they can do is laser vomit or dakka at 50 ish kph. The Nightstar was gonna be a nice ERPPC Gauss platform, but the people did away with that.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 31 July 2017 - 12:30 PM, said:

you dont have to use a 400 engine. you can use a smaller LFE engine instead. But it will still go faster than other IS assaults while having dual heavy ballistics.

Mmhm and how much tonnage do you have for engine after you put in dual heavy ballistics (which really means dual gauss or dual UAC10s)? Do you have sufficient weapons for an assault mech? You are thinking very theoretically and not actually looking at the implications for some of these loadouts. The only way you get respectable firepower with dual heavy ballistics on an IS assault mech is going slow.

Khobai, on 31 July 2017 - 12:30 PM, said:

um have you seen the turkina? no way its geometry is going to be better than the direwolfs. and the direwolfs ballistic hardpoints are already sufficiently high.

Define better? We wouldn't know for sure unless we see the concept art, but I'm not sure how it would be worse. The Dire Wolf's shoulder hardpoints are but no one puts Gauss there, Gauss goes in the arms. And like I said, the Turkina doesn't have the large area over cockpit that the Dire Wolf does.

Khobai, on 31 July 2017 - 12:30 PM, said:

youre not going to put six LRM15s/20s on a mech anyway. thats not really a viable build. If you use six LRM launchers its going to be smaller launchers like 5s or 10s for the much tighter spread, which will fit.

and it would actually have upto 7 missile hardpoints assuming they put 2 missile hardpoints in each arm for the Direwolf-C, which they should, since itd have to compete against a 4E, 1B arm

Why not? You can fit 6 LRM15s on a Turkina with sufficient ammo and some DHS. I checked on SSW, its fine.

Hardpoint inflation on Omni-pods isn't a thing in this game, so no, you won't get 2 missile hardpoints in each arm, you will get one. They aren't just going to start doing something out of the blue because Khobai says so.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 31 July 2017 - 12:42 PM.

[Khobai]

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It gets more fun when you add up the tonnage of dual gauss, 2 LLs, and 3 ER MLs, with 4-5 tons of ammo, and then see what engine size you get to use.

with dual gauss + 5 ISERML you can take an XL350-375 or an LFE325-350

you dont have to take LLs on the nightstar. I mean deathstrike just uses 2 gauss and 6 CERMLs a lot of the time.

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Why not? You can fit 6 LRM15s on a Turkina with sufficient ammo and some DHS. I checked on SSW, its fine.

sure you can do it. but its a bad build.

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Hardpoint inflation on Omni-pods isn't a thing in this game, so no, you won't get 2 missile hardpoints in each arm, you will get one. They aren't just going to start doing something out of the blue because Khobai says so.

Im fine with that too. I mean im not gonna put 6 LRM15s on anything anyway. Because thats a dumb build.

On the direwolf im gonna use the 4E, 1B arms and 2B side torsos

Because assaults NEED to use ballistic weapons in order to stay ahead in the firepower curve. Thats just a fact of the game. Its the only way assaults can get a firepower advantage over heavies since both are subject to the same heat cap. You might as well just play a heavy if youre not going to go full-on ballistics.

The only person that wants to put six LRM15s on an assault mech is you. Thats not a good enough reason to add the Turkina IMO. Because it is literally way worse than the Direwolf in every other way.

Again id rather have the Pirahna as a new clan mech instead. Because we get a 20 tonner we never had before. We can frontload our dropdecks more. And it can spam enough microlasers or light machine guns to actually make them useful.

new clan mechs we should get:
Pirahna > Kingfisher > pretty much anything else > Turkina

Edited by Khobai, 31 July 2017 - 12:57 PM.