89 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Quote

The extra heat is barely noticeable

While the CERML barely went up in heat (6->6.3)

the CMPL also went down in heat (6->4.75)

So the comparative difference is absolutely noticeable (6.3 vs 4.75).

Quote

the duration is an acceptable nerf for better range

1.25 duration is not what id call acceptable.

CERML has longer duration than IS ER large lasers which is stupid.

and the poor CERSL is completely unusable.

The beam durations definitely need to be reduced.

Edited by Khobai, 01 August 2017 - 08:33 AM.

[LordBraxton]

How can anyone not like CMPL??

They are a quick burn high damage laser that extends FAR beyond 'brawling range' as some people have said... since when is 400 meters brawling range? I know they start to degrade around 330 but they still hurt up to 400

I used the CMPL before the recent clan laser nerf and they are even better now

best clan laser IMO

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Khobai, on 01 August 2017 - 08:23 AM, said:

the CMPL also went down in heat (6->4.75)

Sure, but it also does the exact same damage with worse range (it has a lower optimal and is still stuck with 1.7 max range because they refuse to normalize Clan pulse) and twice the tonnage (which matters if you don't need to DPS capability of the cMPL).

Khobai, on 01 August 2017 - 08:23 AM, said:

1.25 duration is not what id call acceptable.

CERML has longer duration than IS ER large lasers which is stupid.

and the poor CERSL is completely unusable.

Neither of them are unusable by good players as they see a lot of play in comp, well, the cERSL heat increase kinda ruined the cERSL, but it is the most usable small laser for both tech bases still. In the end, they are still good and are still very much useful so maybe get over yourself and learn to get better?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

In the end, they need to do something about pulse as a whole because they are in an awkward spot at this point.

• cSPL does less damage per shot than cERSL, cMPL does equal damageper shot to the cERML, and cLPL does more damage per shot than the cERLL
  
• cLPL does the exact same heat as the cERLL while the cSPL and cMPL do less heat than their ER counterparts
  
• cLPL still has 1.4 max range while the cSPL and cMPL still have 1.7 max range

[VirtualRiot]

If you take a TCOMPVII and all the range skills, the optimal range of CMPL is around 400m. Which means it can still throw out fat dps at 500-600m. I think if you can take the tcomp7 and the range skills, CMPL is way better than CERML, just due to heat, cooldown, and duration advantage. If you can not, then its trash because the range is too short.
EBJ is the perfect mech to run 6CMPL and tcomp7 btw. Try it out.
EDIT* Here is the build. Its perfect, and such a beast. I really implore you to try it out and see the magic CMPL can do in this day and age of high heat long duration laser vomit. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...44b97108d998782

Edited by VirtualRiot, 01 August 2017 - 09:45 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

VirtualRiot, on 01 August 2017 - 09:39 AM, said:

If you take a TCOMPVII and all the range skills, the optimal range of CMPL is around 400m. Which means it can still throw out fat dps at 500-600m. I think if you can take the tcomp7 and the range skills, CMPL is way better than CERML, just due to heat, cooldown, and duration advantage. If you can not, then its trash because the range is too short.
EBJ is the perfect mech to run 6CMPL and tcomp7 btw. Try it out.
EDIT* Here is the build. Its perfect, and such a beast. I really implore you to try it out and see the magic CMPL can do in this day and age of high heat long duration laser vomit. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...44b97108d998782

Orrrr, you could just take this build 2 cLPL/4 cERML and do more damage per alpha and not have to expose as much on top of having better optimal range. Or if you are really cool, you run this build: 2 cERLL/6 cERML

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 01 August 2017 - 09:57 AM.

[VirtualRiot]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 01 August 2017 - 09:56 AM, said:

Orrrr, you could just take this build 2 cLPL/4 cERML and do more damage per alpha and not have to expose as much on top of having better optimal range. Or if you are really cool, you run this build: 2 cERLL/6 cERML

You seem to have completely glossed over where I said "...due to heat, cooldown, and duration advantage". The LPL ERML build plays totally differient to the MPL build. They're not substitutes as you seem to be implying.

[Baba Yogi]

VirtualRiot, on 01 August 2017 - 09:39 AM, said:

If you take a TCOMPVII and all the range skills, the optimal range of CMPL is around 400m. Which means it can still throw out fat dps at 500-600m. I think if you can take the tcomp7 and the range skills, CMPL is way better than CERML, just due to heat, cooldown, and duration advantage. If you can not, then its trash because the range is too short.
EBJ is the perfect mech to run 6CMPL and tcomp7 btw. Try it out.
EDIT* Here is the build. Its perfect, and such a beast. I really implore you to try it out and see the magic CMPL can do in this day and age of high heat long duration laser vomit. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...44b97108d998782

You dont need tc7, max one gives 10%range instead of 4%at TC1. My HBKIIc-A has 379 optimal range, at the very best 400-450 range is acceptable damage. Anything beyond you take more return damage than you deal. Range is the greatest weakness of it. Every game i am literally useless at initial poking stage of it, and i have to be on the frontlines(thus first in line to take damage) to be able to do my job. It is good however at what it does as long as you do not get pushed. In a brawl you quickly get overwhelmed. But the difference is when i use 2Lpl+3ERMed on my HBK, i never have to risk myself entire game while dealing damage. I barely ever take return fire. It is so good actually it is ridicilous.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

VirtualRiot, on 01 August 2017 - 10:33 AM, said:

The LPL ERML build plays totally differient to the MPL build. They're not substitutes as you seem to be implying.

Except you seem to be implying they are substitutes simply because they can compete at similar-ish ranges and the fact they are "better" than cERML.

VirtualRiot, on 01 August 2017 - 10:33 AM, said:

You seem to have completely glossed over where I said "...due to heat, cooldown, and duration advantage".

Lower heat, cooldown, and duration are all needed when you can't do as much damage in a single hit or have quite the range of the other builds.

Lordhammer, on 01 August 2017 - 10:52 AM, said:

Range is the greatest weakness of it. Every game i am literally useless at initial poking stage of it, and i have to be on the frontlines(thus first in line to take damage) to be able to do my job.

This is correct, the difference 150m can make when it comes to usefulness can not be underestimated.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 01 August 2017 - 11:07 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

This is correct, the difference 150m can make when it comes to usefulness can not be underestimated.

in my experience the only difference is one extra alphastrike

because you can close 150m in less than 3 seconds

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Khobai, on 01 August 2017 - 12:09 PM, said:

in my experience the only difference is one extra alphastrike

Considering ERML boats tend to have large alpha strikes, that's pretty significant. If I can do 100+ damage in the time it takes you to get even 40 damage in, I'm already off to a good start.

Khobai, on 01 August 2017 - 12:09 PM, said:

because you can close 150m in less than 3 seconds

Let's say the average mech speed is around 75kph, it would take more than 3 seconds to cross 150m, try more like 7.5 seconds. At 90kph it still takes 6 seconds. So the only way you are crossing 150 in less than 3 seconds is if you are going 180+kph.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 01 August 2017 - 12:20 PM.

[AssaultPig]

a lot of clan mechs are pretty starved for slots, especially on energy boats that're packing in the DHS; the superior beam duration and heat seem like a pretty good tradeoff for a couple of tons

[Khobai]

Quote

Let's say the average mech speed is around 75kph, it would take more than 3 seconds to cross 150m, try more like 7.5 seconds.

my ebon jags and what not all go 87kph. so it only takes a few seconds to close 150m. its only enough time to fire one extra alphastrike, assuming Im in the open and not in cover, and you even get a shot at me.

I probably wouldnt use CMPL on anything slower than that. So yeah you do have to combo them up with fast mechs that can get within 400m easily. But Ive said that from the start.

CERML is fine for slower mechs if youre not confident about being able to close the distance gap.

Edited by Khobai, 01 August 2017 - 12:24 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Khobai, on 01 August 2017 - 12:22 PM, said:

my ebon jags and what not all go 87kph.

That's ~6 seconds to get within range, ie that's 2 alphas you would take before even being able to really fire back with appreciable damage. Keeping in mind that Hunchback IICs typically go around that speed as well and they are the best medium in the game, so in other words, you basically think that cMPLs belong on light mechs which really is their best option outside of cERSL boating.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 01 August 2017 - 12:25 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

That's ~6 seconds to get within range, ie that's 2 alphas you would take before even being able to really fire back with appreciable damage.

its one alpha. CERML have super long cooldowns now (5s). So does Gauss (5.75s). But that doesnt even guarantee that youll get an extra alphastrike off, if I can find a way to use cover to close the distance, it completely nullifies the range advantage.

CMPL are fantastic. Dunno why you people are hating on them so much. The 150m range difference is not enough of an advantage for CERML when theyre worse in every other regard.

CERML need their heat and duration reduced IMO. Until then CMPL will be my laser of choice. At least for fast heavies. Which is mostly what I play these days.

Edited by Khobai, 01 August 2017 - 12:34 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Khobai, on 01 August 2017 - 12:26 PM, said:

its one alpha. CERML have super long cooldowns now (5s). So does Gauss (5.75s).

It's two, because 6 seconds is enough for everything to cooldown (and you are assuming Gauss is involved) and repeat before the cMPL can begin to fire his first alpha (basically by the end of the beam of the second alpha the cMPL is able to fire. That is a huge deficit to comeback from when you don't have that much more DPS than the cERML/cLPL boat. Keeping in mind that realistically we should be calculating in duration/cooldown quirks given that you are counting in speed tweak which means I can squeeze in 2 alphas within 6 seconds perfectly with just the duration quirks.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 01 August 2017 - 12:33 PM.

[Baba Yogi]

Khobai, on 01 August 2017 - 12:09 PM, said:

because you can close 150m in less than 3 seconds

Yea you are not charging against enemy alone, when firing lines establish you have to live with what you are given. Until lanes collide there will be significant amount of trades during which mpl boats are useless.

[scadateck]

The focused damage of the cMPL is useful, they are good component-rippers and finishers.

cMPLs are indeed not as good at the initial poke and the range can be problematic, so I think cMLs are a more versatile/efficient weapon overall. Even if they kinda feel like splashing someone with a water hose.

[Khobai]

Quote

Yea you are not charging against enemy alone, when firing lines establish you have to live with what you are given. Until lanes collide there will be significant amount of trades during which mpl boats are useless.

Well CMPLs shouldnt be your only weapon. Generally ive got LPLs or UAC5s/10s or something else. So its not like I cant trade at all.

But mostly you wanna try to stick to cover and close the distance. Try to find an isolated mechs on the flanks and move out of cover just enough so theyre the only enemy mechs that can see you. And then you dissect them with your pulses and/or UACs.

Yes I understand that the long range pokey meta has been so engrained into your heads that youre utterly terrified at the idea of trying something new. But that playstyle bores the !@#$ out of me. I like to brawl. So I do what I like.

[scadateck]

Khobai, on 01 August 2017 - 12:48 PM, said:

...I like to brawl. So I do what I like.

Bam! Agreed!