27 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

davoodoo, on 02 August 2017 - 04:08 PM, said:

Im rarely using gauss but even i noticed half of charge time hold after skill tree...

What? No, that wasn't a thing.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

Jun Watarase, on 02 August 2017 - 11:40 AM, said:

What is the point of these? Last i checked, missles didnt even have any crit chance or damage bonuses, not that critting matters since most people take the survival tree anyway, and you can usually destroy a location with the next alpha anyway.

Missiles have crit chance. If they didn't, you wouldn't be able to destroy equipment with them. I believe they used to be able to crit off their own crit damage, which was removed.

Every time you hit structure, you have have a chance to both damage equipment. As far as I know, missiles are treated as normal weapons, and each missile has a chance to do strike for up to 3 critical hits. A 1x crit is somewhere around 40% probability, while a 3x crit is less than 10%.

A 3x crit gives three extra instances of damage, so your single SRM would be doing 2+2+2 damage to equipment, total. With both crit nodes, you'd be doing 2.3/4.6/6.9 to equipment with each SRM.

After you crit, 15% of the damage you've done to equipment is then done back to that structural component. So, if you land a 1x crit with every missile in an SRM6, you've done..

-12 damage to the component with your initial attack
- 6 instances of 2.3 damage to equipment in that component, totalling 13.8 equipment-destroying damage.
-an additional 2.07 damage rolled off of the crit damage, back onto the component.

So in total, your SRM6 would have done 14.07 damage rather than 13.8 without the crit skills. On a full 3x roll, you'd be doing a total of 6.12 bonus damage to the component, or 18.21 damage total vs. 17.4 without.

Comparing crit damage on a Splat dog, on a full 1x crit it's 84.42 vs, 82.8 dmg.

That's my understanding of how crit damage works, someone that has better insight can correct me if I'm wrong.

In any case, I think they're appropriately scaled. They aren't a massive investment, losing 1.5% cooldown for one node, and spending an extra two SP for the other. Comparatively, you're spending 4 extra SP to gain Missile Spread 2 (-2.5% spread) down from Missile Racks 1. It's not super crazy powerful, but it's also one of the only ways to increase your alpha, and you're not spending very much to get it.

Think of it this way- making them too good removes choice from the skill tree. Right now it's a total investment of 4 points. Alternatively, you can take Cooldown 1, 3, 13, and Heat Gen 8 instead. 15% crit damage vs. 2.25% cooldown and 0.75% heat gen? That's a valid decision that would be removed if you pumped crit chance up to two 15% nodes or something.

[davoodoo]

Aggravated Assault Mech, on 02 August 2017 - 05:26 PM, said:

A 1x crit is somewhere around 40% probability, while a 3x crit is less than 10%.

You wish

25% for 1
14% for 2
3% for 3

So your fancy srm6 will do on average 3 crits for a total of 6 extra dmg(6.9 for is) assuming ofc all missiles hit exposed component. Off that add 2 nodes for a whooping 15% crit dmg so 0.15x6=0.9 entire dmg(1 for is)...

Edited by davoodoo, 02 August 2017 - 05:35 PM.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

davoodoo, on 02 August 2017 - 05:30 PM, said:

You wish

25% for 1
14% for 2
3% for 3

So your fancy srm6 will do on average 3 crits for a total of 6 extra dmg(6.9 for is) assuming ofc all missiles hit exposed component. Off that add 2 nodes for a whooping 15% crit dmg so 0.15x6=0.9 entire dmg(1 for is)...

Yeah I was mistaken, 42% chance for a crit of any type.

[Khobai]

Quote

So your fancy srm6 will do on average 3 crits for a total of 6 extra dmg(6.9 for is) assuming ofc all missiles hit exposed component. Off that add 2 nodes for a whooping 15% crit dmg so 0.15x6=0.9 entire dmg(1 for is)...

yes but its also only bonus crit damage, as in damage done to equipment health, and not actual damage.

for a 1 damage missile, the actual bonus damage to internal structure from HE is only 15% of the 1.15 crit damage.... its literally almost nothing

so a missile that normally does 1 damage and gets a x1 crit will do 1.15 damage to a random piece of equipment but then only do 1.32 damage to the mech's internal structure (instead of the 1.15 you would normally do without two points in HE)

So two skill points in HE is only adding a pitiful 0.17 bonus damage to internal structure whenever you get a x1 crit. Its really sad.

They need to at least double the benefit from HE to make it worth putting points in.

Edited by Khobai, 02 August 2017 - 06:37 PM.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

Jeez there are total of 91 nodes to select, who cares if some of them are lower value. I have those nodes on many missile mechs selected and I really can't be bothered to evaluate if they could be better elsewhere.

[Alexander of Macedon]

davoodoo, on 02 August 2017 - 01:20 PM, said:

I can put lets say 2 structure nodes like i said already...

That's not a dip, that's filling holes you left in a tree. And if you're skilling a 'mech that merits taking structure nodes in the first place, you're doing it wrong if you fill those in after going to the bottom of the Firepower tree.

[Athom83]

davoodoo, on 02 August 2017 - 04:39 PM, said:

extra rangein firepower, cooling and heat management in operations.

Already have most of them. And I couldn't reach any more heat skills with those 2 nodes.