163 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

DESTRUKTROTRON, on 04 August 2017 - 09:35 AM, said:

lol cause that's what battletch is!!!!! You're not supposed to actually boat weapons. I'm glad that they're adding an non min maxing mech finally.

Don't worry it can still bring PPC/AC5 loadouts or Gauss plus lasers.

[Gas Guzzler]

MovinTarget, on 07 August 2017 - 08:04 AM, said:

We have to consider that with the tech gap closing that some mechs may be losing quirks. No guarantee of this, I know, but we simply cannot look at the state of quirkdom now and assume it won't change when this mech drops.

Besides, the typical PGI approach is to start off with less-than-stellar quirks until its proven that better ones are needed.

Yeah, my main point was that saying ECM and jump jets all of a sudden make a mech amazing was kind of foolish nowadays. ECM is little more than a QoL feature.. and you have to invest in the skill tree to take advantage of it. And jump jets... unless you can dedicate 3-4 tons (which is pretty difficult on an IS mech that isn't XL safe) you aren't going to be able to poptart, so again its just another QoL feature for positioning. ECM and JJs aren't what they once were.

[MovinTarget]

DESTRUKTROTRON, on 04 August 2017 - 09:35 AM, said:

lol cause that's what battletch is!!!!! You're not supposed to actually boat weapons. I'm glad that they're adding an non min maxing mech finally.

More precisely, in TT boats exist, but are specialists typically with glaring flaws that cannot be so easily mitigated as they are in MWO.

Because of the mechanics are so different, one could certainly attribute boating to the power creep in MWO. The question is, just like with inflation, when do we stop? Once we do, things will tend to start crashing down.

[Gas Guzzler]

Odanan, on 05 August 2017 - 05:55 PM, said:

I did that in my last playthrough. The ending is cool - you got to join the Clan Wolf.

Is that MW4 Mercs? Man im gonna have to play that again.

[MovinTarget]

Gas Guzzler, on 07 August 2017 - 08:14 AM, said:

Yeah, my main point was that saying ECM and jump jets all of a sudden make a mech amazing was kind of foolish nowadays. ECM is little more than a QoL feature.. and you have to invest in the skill tree to take advantage of it. And jump jets... unless you can dedicate 3-4 tons (which is pretty difficult on an IS mech that isn't XL safe) you aren't going to be able to poptart, so again its just another QoL feature for positioning. ECM and JJs aren't what they once were.

Not necessarily for the opportunistic solo artist. I'm not saying this is great team logic, but often if you are not targetable, or even *easily* targetable in a sea of red doritos, you tend to live longer.

Sure, it may not be tier 1 material (we'll see), but there is certainly utility in having a sneaky poptart in some arenas.

[Gas Guzzler]

MovinTarget, on 07 August 2017 - 10:00 AM, said:

Not necessarily for the opportunistic solo artist. I'm not saying this is great team logic, but often if you are not targetable, or even *easily* targetable in a sea of red doritos, you tend to live longer.

Sure, it may not be tier 1 material (we'll see), but there is certainly utility in having a sneaky poptart in some arenas.

What do you poptart with? Just 2 Heavy PPCs? Just not enough sustained DPS for me, and the CTF-3D has better mounts anyway.

[MovinTarget]

Gas Guzzler, on 07 August 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:

What do you poptart with? Just 2 Heavy PPCs? Just not enough sustained DPS for me, and the CTF-3D has better mounts anyway.

CTF lacks ECM and while, yes, ecm now is as good as it used to be, you have a better chance of getting your shot off b4 getting spotted at range.

Not saying its a meta-changer, but do you really want it to be all that and a bag-o-chips?

I have so many mechs now that its to a point that I don't need to collect workhorses, I'm interested in specialists. That's just me, but just saying...

[Gas Guzzler]

MovinTarget, on 07 August 2017 - 01:01 PM, said:

CTF lacks ECM and while, yes, ecm now is as good as it used to be, you have a better chance of getting your shot off b4 getting spotted at range.

Not saying its a meta-changer, but do you really want it to be all that and a bag-o-chips?

I have so many mechs now that its to a point that I don't need to collect workhorses, I'm interested in specialists. That's just me, but just saying...

Honestly the only mechs that I find to be all that and a bag of chips are Clan assaults, and a couple of Clan heavies, nowadays. So another good IS heavy would be pretty nice. Doesn't need to be "all that and a bag of chips" I just don't want it to be neutered. Notice how the base variant has 4E and 2M? Just ick, not much it can do. I just know that they are going to be VERY cautious with this mech because people think that ECM is amazing, when it really isn't. High shoulder mounts (like on the CTF-3D) are more valuable, because if your cockpit is showing you can shoot. The Thanatos requires you to lift most of your torso above cover to shoot, so your enemy's eyeballs work, the ECM won't help you. Granted I'm still gonna get the base pack, but people need to understand this is NOT going to be some revolutionary top tier mech just because it has ECM and JJs.

[Aramuside]

Gas Guzzler, on 07 August 2017 - 08:14 AM, said:

Yeah, my main point was that saying ECM and jump jets all of a sudden make a mech amazing was kind of foolish nowadays. ECM is little more than a QoL feature.. and you have to invest in the skill tree to take advantage of it. And jump jets... unless you can dedicate 3-4 tons (which is pretty difficult on an IS mech that isn't XL safe) you aren't going to be able to poptart, so again its just another QoL feature for positioning. ECM and JJs aren't what they once were.

Mmh you're rather pushing the definition of quality of life a bit far. ECM is as much a QOL as say armour or AMS is. I guarantee that the people on polar hiding behind my ECM and double boosted dual AMS yesterday when the 5 missile boats with Narcer guidance were trying to nail us thought it was more than a QOL feature.

QOL would usually refer to say an improvement in UI to make your life easier or say a loadout function in a FPS game to easily change from one setup to another. I agree the requirement to spec into ECM under the skill tree really does hurt it but that's because of the opportunity cost of what you're losing not because ECM really got any less effective in itself. Arguably the mech is stronger because it has the ability to mount jump jets and ECM - if you choose not to that's your choice. Its still a great opportunity to have.

PS: I forgot to mention that ECM is the opener for stealth armour ergo my celebration earlier as we can finally run the dual gauss stealth mech. Yes the 280 standard engine required is a pain in a 75 tonner but I guarantee it will have a place in quite a few peoples lineup who like stealth mechs.

Edited by Aramuside, 07 August 2017 - 10:58 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Eh, ECM can be nice on Polar if your team is bad, but theres a reason competitive top tier mechs rarely have ECM.

Dual gauss is a little lacking in the firepower department to be honest.. you can do that if you want but meh.

Not to mention... not only do you typically lose out on quirks/hardpoints, but then you also have to sacrifice in the skill tree to get all the nodes in the sensor tree to bring ECM to the point where it was. You lose twice, and it was arguably not worth the downsides before the skill tree, aside from Omnimechs like the Arctic Cheetah.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 08 August 2017 - 06:19 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Gas Guzzler, on 08 August 2017 - 06:12 AM, said:

Eh, ECM can be nice on Polar if your team is bad, but theres a reason competitive top tier mechs rarely have ECM.

Dual gauss is a little lacking in the firepower department to be honest.. you can do that if you want but meh.

Not to mention... not only do you typically lose out on quirks/hardpoints, but then you also have to sacrifice in the skill tree to get all the nodes in the sensor tree to bring ECM to the point where it was. You lose twice, and it was arguably not worth the downsides before the skill tree, aside from Omnimechs like the Arctic Cheetah.

I think you need to clarify the point on ECM - because in comp, and to a lesser extent group queue id agree with you... but in solo queue ECM is incredibly good, and id wager that the vast majority of games are played in the solo queue.

[NocturnalBeast]

Widowmaker1981, on 08 August 2017 - 06:37 AM, said:

I think you need to clarify the point on ECM - because in comp, and to a lesser extent group queue id agree with you... but in solo queue ECM is incredibly good, and id wager that the vast majority of games are played in the solo queue.

Yes, in solo queue where 2/3 of the players run MKIIs with LRM20 spam.

[EvangelX]

TBH I just loved it from MW4 trugding through the swamp under low light conditions and.... BOOM!!

Thats my purchase point right there, I dont give a fig jam about weapons, quirks or armour. I'll make it work and have fun doing so! o7

[BTGbullseye]

Ed Steele, on 08 August 2017 - 07:23 AM, said:

LRM20 spam.

I can sense the salt from here...

LRMs are easy to counter if you pay attention and have any real skill. I got good at it within a week. It ain't hard.

[Husarz]

Hey, i would definitely get this mech pack, however considering PGI nerf policy and what happened with kodiak, night gyr and marauder IIc i will never again buy any mech pack. This being said i will gladly buy nerfed thanatos for c-bills.

[NocturnalBeast]

BTGbullseye, on 08 August 2017 - 09:17 AM, said:

I can sense the salt from here...

LRMs are easy to counter if you pay attention and have any real skill. I got good at it within a week. It ain't hard.

I run ECM or AMS on every mech that I take. Yes, it is easy to get to cover with a fast Mech, but try doing that in a slow assault, where your choices are to cower behind cover and poke out for shots while your team rails on you for not "sharing armor", or you can charge and maybe get to your target with a gun or two left. No, I am not whining, I have always said that Lurms are a viable option, it just gets lame when the matchmaker puts 6 Heavy Lurm boats on one team.

[FireStoat]

Husarz, on 08 August 2017 - 10:08 AM, said:

Hey, i would definitely get this mech pack, however considering PGI nerf policy and what happened with kodiak, night gyr and marauder IIc i will never again buy any mech pack.

I kind of feel the same way. I was tempted to purchase the Nightstar pre order and get the early rewards at the last moment, and then I canceled the order. This was the exact reason. I get the idea top tier mechs will get nerfed down in the same manner as say, League of Legends will nerf down an over performing champion. The difference between PGI and Riot games however is that the latter does constant review of their game's current state, and is willing to revert most or at least part of a nerfed champion if it's obvious they've fallen well below the 50% mark of performance for what it's intended for.

PGI is content to nerf a mech down and just leave it there for months, if not over a year. It appears on the surface that their philosophy is that new content will take care of concerns players have with broken mechs. Ask any Spirit Bear owner how they feel after their mech was held to the same standard of the Kodiak 3 and put in the same shoebox of nerfs. or honestly, the MAD IIC (D) sharing the same status for nerfs as the Scorch. I remain unmotivated to buy any new mechs because I'm constantly reminded of PGI's game adjustment philosophy.

[Gas Guzzler]

Widowmaker1981, on 08 August 2017 - 06:37 AM, said:

I think you need to clarify the point on ECM - because in comp, and to a lesser extent group queue id agree with you... but in solo queue ECM is incredibly good, and id wager that the vast majority of games are played in the solo queue.

I mean... I play in the solo queue a lot and only slightly notice the ECM when I take an ECM mech, even with the skills in it.

But still, I'm sure a couple of the variants will be solid in the solo queue, just not great because too much value is placed on ECM. I mean, look at the base variant. 4E 2M? Seriously? 6 hardpoints? That is a strict downgrade from the hero (5E 5M). I guess 6E 2M would have been too OP?

Husarz, on 08 August 2017 - 10:08 AM, said:

Hey, i would definitely get this mech pack, however considering PGI nerf policy and what happened with kodiak, night gyr and marauder IIc i will never again buy any mech pack. This being said i will gladly buy nerfed thanatos for c-bills.

The Kodiak is just "above average" now, a long with the Dire. The Marauder IIC is still a top assault. The Night Gyr is still well above average, and still has some builds that work very well. Not sure why are complaining, all those mechs are still pretty good, especially the Marauder IIC

[BTGbullseye]

Ed Steele, on 08 August 2017 - 11:21 AM, said:

it just gets lame when the matchmaker puts 6 Heavy Lurm boats on one team.

That's a problem with the lack of matchmaker, not with the LRMs... You portrayed it as the opposite, which is not helpful at all with fixing the root problem in the slightest.

[Aramuside]

BTGbullseye, on 10 August 2017 - 01:05 AM, said:

That's a problem with the lack of matchmaker, not with the LRMs... You portrayed it as the opposite, which is not helpful at all with fixing the root problem in the slightest.

Well in fairness I'm not even sure if you can point blank say which side in that match up is more disadvantaged. The match maker doesn't discriminate against you for your good or bad choice in loadouts. Imagine if it did .... too many meta mechs on that side for YOU... too few... too many brawlers... wait not enough?

Edited by Aramuside, 10 August 2017 - 02:49 AM.