18 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

Semi bad idea #21,
what if IS Engines had higher Speeds?

in this case to keep things simple lets say only +10Kph,
so even IS mech would get a +10Kph Quirk(Additive not Multiplicative)
(this isnt +10%speed, but a full +10Kph to your Speed)

would this narrow the tech gap at least engine wise?
would this bring LFEs closer to C-XL engines?
what would you do if this was a thing,
Discuss,

Thoughts, Comments, Concerns?
Thanks,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 05 August 2017 - 04:04 PM.

[Ruar]

I think a flat 10kph probably wouldn't work. Lights wouldn't matter and heavies/assaults it would be terrific. It would need to be a graduated scale based on tonnage. A 20 tonner would get a 20kph boost, a 50 tonner gets 15kph, and 100 tons gets the 10kph with the different weights in between getting fractions.

Additionally I think there should be a bigger bonus for standard engines over LFE. Something like LFEs get 70% of the speed increase.

In the end these are just bandaids thrown on the gaping wound that is IS XL dying to one torso loss. If they would just fix the durn ISXL engines then there wouldn't be a need to do anything to try and compensate on the other engines.

[Lux Monolithic]

What if this was Tribes and jump jets were fun?

[AzureRathalos]

If IS engines had higher speeds, the Locust would go so fast that it could kill itself if it collided with a building or a mech.

[Carl Vickers]

Wont work, some lights are pushing the actual game engines limit speed wise and HSR wise.

Still wouldnt narrow the 'you die' from a single ST loss VS clans that die on 2nd ST loss.

The only way for there to be parity is making them the same.

Edited by Carl Vickers, 05 August 2017 - 04:59 PM.

[stealthraccoon]

Faster?
No.
But I am for making inefficient engines have some benefits. For instance, there is absolutely no reason to use an XL150, 155, 160 or 165 - they all are inferior to the XL170 as they all weigh the same. Why not give the XL150 a minor quirk, such as heat loss +% or whatever; picking bigger engines gives you speed and going down to an XL145 give me an extra .5 ton to work with.

[Ruar]

stealthraccoon, on 05 August 2017 - 05:06 PM, said:

Faster?
No.
But I am for making inefficient engines have some benefits. For instance, there is absolutely no reason to use an XL150, 155, 160 or 165 - they all are inferior to the XL170 as they all weigh the same. Why not give the XL150 a minor quirk, such as heat loss +% or whatever; picking bigger engines gives you speed and going down to an XL145 give me an extra .5 ton to work with.

Heat loss boost does sound better than a speed boost. Especially with the way the skill tree nerfed heat handling.

[davoodoo]

You know what would close the gap??

ability to use cdhs...

yes idea is so bad that mixtech clantech is prefered

Edited by davoodoo, 05 August 2017 - 05:48 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

I vote that it is more than a semi bad idea, in fact, that it is indeed actually a bad idea

Just slapping on across the board buffs of such massive margins is dangerous stuff. I assume your reasoning is because you think they are too slow? Because if you get into specifics its only really a few clan mechs that are just super fast. The direwolf for example would just get left further in the dust.

[LordNothing]

any buff to std engines is going to predominantly make heavies and assaults more powerful. mediums and lights, many of which are in xl land, wont see those buffs and will fall behind relatively speaking. so xls also need a buff. what if we make the std engine come with a small percentile speed buff, the xl come with an armor cap buff for torso sections (it doesnt add armor it just increases the maximum it can allocate, which requires additional tonnage). all about 5%. so one adds speed and the other adds durability. lfes as middle of the ground engines remain as is.

[Dr Hobo]

No the games too fast as it is now.

You should be wanting to slow the game down a bit than want to speed it up

[Tarl Cabot]

isXL needs to have the same benefit as cXL, survive the loss of one side torso, different penalties. STD engine provides double damage reduction, on top of the current setting for incoming damage hitting destroyed components.

As for engine speed, small increment increase based on weight class with lights receiving the smallest increase. PGI can change base engine speeds for whatever reason.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 05 August 2017 - 06:39 PM.

[Alexander of Macedon]

We're never going to get XL parity. I'd suggest the following instead:

cXL is in a fairly healthy space (without considering IS engines). It's our baseline.

IS XL: Increased speed by 7.5%/10%/12.5%/15% for lights/mediums/heavies/assaults, applied additively alongside Speed Tweak (that is, full speed with both IS XL and Speed Tweak nodes would be 115%/117.5%/&c.). That'd put Locusts up to 177kph (from 165) on one end of the spectrum, and Assaults up into the mid 70s on the other-noticeable, and maybe worth risking, but still a tradeoff given that the torso pop is still a thing.

LFE: Equalize ST loss penalty at the cXL level, add heat dissipation buff of 10%/7.5%/5%/2.5% (balance aside, the logic being that smaller 'mechs have a greater surface area to volume ratio, i.e. more efficient heat dissipation). IS 'mechs still often have engine caps below what's carried by equivalent-tonnage omnimechs and have lower tonnage savings than cXL when taking LFE, but the equal loss penalty and cooling buff help make things a bit more even.

STD: Substantial structure buffs for all torsos. Heat dissipation buff of 15%/12.5%/10%/7.5%. STD 'mechs are good at one thing: energizer bunny mode. This makes them live longer and keep firing longer (which helps make up for their generally lighter armament-lower alpha still, but better staying power in fights).


The idea's that cXL is the JOAT, it's going to be solid at everything, and PGI won't give the IS an equivalent, so the three engines available to the IS should instead outperform cXL in one area to make up for their sharp downsides elsewhere. IS XL gets better speed but still has much less effective cooling and dies when a ST pops. LFE has the same survivability and somewhat improved cooling (relative to IS XL), but still weighs way more. STD has very good cooling and survivability, but weighs so damn much. And yes, clan Battlemechs that swap over to standard engines should get the same structure and heat dissipation buffs.

Just spitballing on numbers there, and even on effects, it's more about the general concept.

Edited by Alexander of Macedon, 05 August 2017 - 07:11 PM.

[Mystere]

Andi Nagasia, on 05 August 2017 - 04:04 PM, said:

Semi bad idea #21,

You're most certainly right about that one.

[Rusharn]

There doesn't need to be any adjustments to the engines. While the clan engines have more survivability and are lighter, on omni mechs the engines are locked along with other fixed internals so engine efficiency is countered by locked speed and locked slots. On the clan battlemechs while having the cLX engine all clan mechs have poorer handling and acceleration then IS mechs in the same tonnage since the engine De-sync. Often the clan battle mechs also have poorer torso twisting profiles.

Combined with IS getting better heat cooling in the weapons tree and more out of the survival tree, I think PGI is as close to asymmetrical parity as they can reach, especially with the addition of the LFE for the IS.

[ShadowFire]

I would be happy if mechs could pick up some speed going downhill.

[SavageConvoy]

If IS engines had a higher speed, the clan players would ponder a complaint and Russ would be having a hot fix go through before the first post patch game can start that makes all IS mechs start off legged to balance it out.

[Ghogiel]

Well for 1 it might have cases where some lighter mechs break MWOs HSR speed limit. 171kph is pretty terrible imo. I'm not sure whether PGI was having potatoes test this **** or they were testing HSR with artifical pings on local est servers and not in their actual live servers with live players, or whatever, but they got that **** wrong and things at the upper limit get iffy af. Lag leading is a garbage mechanic.

Other than that, it's not so much top speed, it's that bigger engines don't give you any agility any more. So instead of a mechanic that breaks the game, really XLs getting a very small agility buff would out weight top straight line speed in usefulness in more combat instances imo.

Edited by Ghogiel, 07 August 2017 - 02:55 PM.

[Lord0fHats]

I honestly think we're past the point the IS can continue to complain about engine parity. Well past. By like, a year. The bigger weakness for IS on engines is low engine caps on many IS mechs relative to the clan mechs of the same weight (this however isn't always a disadvantage, I wish I could get a smaller engine on my vipers/Ice Ferrets). Buffing engines by ludicrous even higher than old speed tweak numbers and then stacking it with speed tweak isn't just a bad idea, it's game breaking.

Edited by Lord0fHats, 07 August 2017 - 02:56 PM.