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If You Learn Nothing Else!


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#21 Alias72

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 10:09 AM

If you learn nothing else:

Shoot the blue one.
I mean the red one!
unless the red one is painted blue...
or is it the blue one painted red?
oh and if there is a green one shoot it anyway.
Everyone hates green mechs.

Edited by Alias72, 13 August 2017 - 10:14 AM.


#22 TooDumbToQuit

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 03:43 PM

First off, I'd move the "find target" from R to scroll forward on your mouse. You do not have to take your finger off a moment button and I normally click it 20-30 times a minute.

Second, I started off this game doing a lot of spotting for LRMers sitting 400 meters behind me.

I found that they get damage and XP while I was getting my head shot off.

So now I say, get a Tag and your own damn locks.

#23 BTGbullseye

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 09:04 PM

View PostAlias72, on 13 August 2017 - 10:09 AM, said:

Everyone hates green mechs.

You just made me want to make a glowing neon green mech... Imagine it, a neon green MCII-4 with the Jade Falcon pattern, and 4 ER Medium Lasers... The green will consume you!!! (now with missiles!)

Edited by BTGbullseye, 14 August 2017 - 09:05 PM.


#24 BTGbullseye

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 10:00 PM

Ok, the idea has taken form... Behold!

Posted Image

#25 SyztemKrash

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 09:34 AM

Actually 'R' is the second best thing a pilot can do, the First is communication.

You may not have a mic etc, but you can listen. I see quite a bit of griping from light/med mech getting their faces smashed in... Now how many of those same player's go running into a fight, leaving their heavy/assault pilots in the wake while they run in. Do you not realize that those bigger mechs have a top speed that is a 1/3 of of your own?

If I had a dollar for every match I played where a light/medium mech goes running off and ends up 2-3k away from the group and then starts crying about being engaged and wanting help. No offense if I am in an assault, I am not going to change direction to save your little shiney metal ***. Reality is by the time I get to you your already dead and I just put myself into the center of an opposing firing line.

It's a tough lesson to learn, but if the voice in your head is saying this is a bad idea (For example seeing a nice exposed CT on an enemy and getting tunnel vision trying to kill it) it's probably a trap. It's a hard habit to break, but we all do it at some point.

First and foremost, I'd say go into testing grounds and learn the maps/coverage/chokepoints etc for all spawn points of a map.

Second: communication

Third: use the 'R' key liberally

Fourth: Occasional use of the Map and retain your spacial awareness.

Fifth: Target Awareness, Friendly Awareness. (Why in the hell would you walk in front a friendly mech laying down shots downrange? Me personally, I am sick of having to lift up the firing button while I am trying to force a mech into cover and a not so bright team mate walks right in front of me trying to get in on the kill. I don't mind sharing kills, I mind having to shoot through you to get to my target. I have learnt to take the team damage/kill as long as I can kill the target as well, in other words if you walk in front of me you have just become collateral damage (enjoy spectator mode).

Sixth: Proper Weapon Grouping, and mech balance. (If you shoot once, and sit for 20 seconds to cooldown your not going to be very useful) Every time I hear someone on comms or chat say they are touting 100+ Firepower, the first thought that comes to mind is "Stand behind this guy for a shutdown friendly shield".

Additional Note for LRM boats, Shoot and move. Enemies will follow the trail of LRM back to you, and try and flank you. Ooh and don't blow your load in one shot, stagger those LRM groups. You'll not only spread out the heat over time, your will be able to continuously lay down suppression LRM's which will have the enemy running for cover. Stay withing range of the group which means using the "W" button to keep up and in an optimal position to land those LRM's. Finally have something waiting for those who get close to you, like some ballistics or energy weapons on hold.

GLHF!

#26 Wintercycle

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 02:11 PM

Excellent post! You covered pretty much everything and more than I would have. Four and Five are definitely something not pointed out often.

View PostKrash9mm, on 15 August 2017 - 09:34 AM, said:

You may not have a mic etc, but you can listen. I see quite a bit of griping from light/med mech getting their faces smashed in... Now how many of those same player's go running into a fight, leaving their heavy/assault pilots in the wake while they run in. Do you not realize that those bigger mechs have a top speed that is a 1/3 of of your own?

If I had a dollar for every match I played where a light/medium mech goes running off and ends up 2-3k away from the group and then starts crying about being engaged and wanting help. No offense if I am in an assault, I am not going to change direction to save your little shiney metal ***. Reality is by the time I get to you your already dead and I just put myself into the center of an opposing firing line.

It's a tough lesson to learn, but if the voice in your head is saying this is a bad idea (For example seeing a nice exposed CT on an enemy and getting tunnel vision trying to kill it) it's probably a trap. It's a hard habit to break, but we all do it at some point.


<somewhat offtopic>

I agree with your entire post, but I wanted to address this in particular as someone who actually prefers to pilot Lights and Mediums, I cannot state how important it is for L/M pilots to own up to if they choose to bite down on something they'll choke on. On the other hand, it can be an opportunity to vex your enemies and pull their attention away from the front, but seriously, don't expect help.

(Alternatively, if you do end up 1-2k away, do have a mic and can stay hidden -- good. Keep your team apprised as to where the enemies are, and if you think there's something delicious there about to pop out of cover, hold lock on that one.

Or just make your own way back, dropping artillery strikes and UAVs and causing chaos. You know. Be annoying. Especially to other lights.)

</somewhat offtopic>

#27 Kroete

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:26 AM

View PostThe Basilisk, on 10 August 2017 - 07:12 AM, said:


Oh little one...LRMs are useless because they dont even do dmg.

My only assault is an lrm mech (brought it this month),
why are my assault-stats then nearly the same as your assault-stats?

Are you that bad that you cant do more then a lrm-boat that dont even do dmg?

Edited by Kroete, 17 August 2017 - 02:33 AM.


#28 The Basilisk

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 05:14 AM

View PostKroete, on 17 August 2017 - 02:26 AM, said:

My only assault is an lrm mech (brought it this month),
why are my assault-stats then nearly the same as your assault-stats?

Are you that bad that you cant do more then a lrm-boat that dont even do dmg?


Cause I actually commit to battle instead of lurmleaching and put my behinds on the line, leveled crispy new 5 Annihilators from scratch and yes versus the guys I normaly play, LRMs would do no damage because you would die before getting a single lock.Posted Image

#29 B L O O D W I T C H

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 11:50 AM

And when you done learning how to press "R" while being totally tacticool and general really f'inf leet and stuff, maybe, just maybe.
You will figure out to actually think about what you're doing and why you're doing it.

From personal experience, i can tell that, more often then not, pressing "R" like the big boys told us might actually not the best thing to do.

Every tried to backstab an assault on to have him turn arround and rip you a second.. just because you tapped "R" and some really nice teammate had to fire his 2 medium lasers 2 meter below maxrange into the just appearing, juicy red dorito?
Should not have tapped R.

Remember that radar derp actually tells you when a lock is broken? Remember that even average pilots nowadays are able to tell that they might have an onlooker in their back when they see that white flash a little bit too often?
Should not have tapped R.

Ever seen an enemy happily walking into into your whole teams firing line just to stop virtually 1 meter and backpaddle because one of your team simply had to lob his OP Lrm5 salvo into the vegetation from roughly 1 km away?
You guessed it, should not have tapped R.


Anyhow, targeting can be a great help... "can".. it doesn't has to be, tho.

Thinking about what would be good in a situation and what would not is always a great help for you and your team. tho.

#30 General Solo

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 05:17 PM

If you learn nothing else : Stay with the team and shoot what they shoot

Eyeball Mark I module required

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 17 August 2017 - 05:18 PM.


#31 PieRat

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 07:11 PM

In regards to "R". The best thing I ever did way back when was change that key bind to "E". Just seemed more natural with my fore finger always hovering over the D key for movement.

#32 The Basilisk

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 11:40 PM

View PostToha Heavy Industries, on 17 August 2017 - 11:50 AM, said:

And when you done learning how to press "R" while being totally tacticool and general really f'inf leet and stuff, maybe, just maybe.
You will figure out to actually think about what you're doing and why you're doing it.

From personal experience, i can tell that, more often then not, pressing "R" like the big boys told us might actually not the best thing to do.

Every tried to backstab an assault on to have him turn arround and rip you a second.. just because you tapped "R" and some really nice teammate had to fire his 2 medium lasers 2 meter below maxrange into the just appearing, juicy red dorito?
Should not have tapped R.

Remember that radar derp actually tells you when a lock is broken? Remember that even average pilots nowadays are able to tell that they might have an onlooker in their back when they see that white flash a little bit too often?
Should not have tapped R.

Ever seen an enemy happily walking into into your whole teams firing line just to stop virtually 1 meter and backpaddle because one of your team simply had to lob his OP Lrm5 salvo into the vegetation from roughly 1 km away?
You guessed it, should not have tapped R.


Anyhow, targeting can be a great help... "can".. it doesn't has to be, tho.

Thinking about what would be good in a situation and what would not is always a great help for you and your team. tho.


Nice examples, sadly nobody wants to hear reason.
Bashing people that say there is no easymode is so much more fun.

#33 SyztemKrash

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 01:02 AM

View PostToha Heavy Industries, on 17 August 2017 - 11:50 AM, said:

And when you done learning how to press "R" while being totally tacticool and general really f'inf leet and stuff, maybe, just maybe.
You will figure out to actually think about what you're doing and why you're doing it.

From personal experience, i can tell that, more often then not, pressing "R" like the big boys told us might actually not the best thing to do.

Every tried to backstab an assault on to have him turn arround and rip you a second.. just because you tapped "R" and some really nice teammate had to fire his 2 medium lasers 2 meter below maxrange into the just appearing, juicy red dorito?
Should not have tapped R.

Remember that radar derp actually tells you when a lock is broken? Remember that even average pilots nowadays are able to tell that they might have an onlooker in their back when they see that white flash a little bit too often?
Should not have tapped R.

Ever seen an enemy happily walking into into your whole teams firing line just to stop virtually 1 meter and backpaddle because one of your team simply had to lob his OP Lrm5 salvo into the vegetation from roughly 1 km away?
You guessed it, should not have tapped R.


Anyhow, targeting can be a great help... "can".. it doesn't has to be, tho.

Thinking about what would be good in a situation and what would not is always a great help for you and your team. tho.


The post was if you learn nothing else, which is placed in the Academy Category (Which I am assuming is a post for newer player's). A newer player is more than likely not studied enough to sneak up on a mech, so as a general guideline exercising the R button is a more useful thing for a newer player to get use to. This ensures that they will be useful in a group. Once they are seasoned, and learn more stealthy tactics, then this category probably wouldn't apply and the rule sets you operate by change.

Would you really want a new player running ahead of the group, and trying to sneak up on enemy mechs?

Though the points you have made of reasons not to use the R button are very valid points, they are not really applicable to a new player as a "general guideline" to follow or learn right out of the Academy.

I completely agree with you however on learning. You should always try to learn something from your match if possible. Most of the groups I have been in that have done well, are the groups who are communicating, calling targets, and have a plan on how and when to engage the enemy.

Edited by Krash9mm, 18 August 2017 - 01:09 AM.


#34 KursedVixen

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 11:10 AM

View PostBTGbullseye, on 10 August 2017 - 12:28 AM, said:

I think I found someone that never learned to dodge LRMs... LRMs are very easy to counter, and not as easy as you seem to think to run. If the person using them is inexperienced, or unskilled, they can indeed seem to be a leech for the team, but those aren't as common as you portray. (and almost never harmful to the team unless you refuse to hold a lock that would not harm you to hold)

The biggest problem isn't the LRM boats in the back, it's people at the front that don't lock targets to get that LRM support. You complain about dying without support, well lock the target and you'll get the support! Direct-fire weapons aren't the be-all end-all of the Mechwarrior universe, and people that treat them like they are are a cancer to this community. Almost every weapon has its place, and you just don't like the place that LRMs take.
Try that in a DIrewolf, avoiding missles in a slow mech is very hard and not to mention I don't think alot of assaults have proper Ams points.


On a sidenote.


PLease lock targets... it helps both you and your team.

Edited by KursedVixen, 18 August 2017 - 12:01 PM.


#35 B L O O D W I T C H

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 11:58 AM

View PostKursedVixen, on 18 August 2017 - 11:10 AM, said:

Try that in a DIrewolf, avoiding missles in a slow mech is very hard and not to mention I don't think alot of assaults have proper Ams points.


On a sidenote.


PLease lock targets... it helps both you and your team.

It's obviously not as easy to evade missiles in an assault then with a fast moving light/medium.
Although, What a lot of people don't get is that It's kinda like the child already had fallen in the well.
The positioning "error" has probably been made a good while ago and the punish (in form of missile rain) often comes minutes later.
It's kinda like "oh missiles OP, can't evade them in an assault" when it's actually "yeah you should have moved 2 minutes ago".
Strangely, alot of folks can not relate to that.

Edited by Toha Heavy Industries, 19 August 2017 - 11:58 AM.


#36 KursedVixen

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 12:39 PM

View PostToha Heavy Industries, on 19 August 2017 - 11:58 AM, said:

It's obviously not as easy to evade missiles in an assault then with a fast moving light/medium.
Although, What a lot of people don't get is that It's kinda like the child already had fallen in the well.
The positioning "error" has probably been made a good while ago and the punish (in form of missile rain) often comes minutes later.
It's kinda like "oh missiles OP, can't evade them in an assault" when it's actually "yeah you should have moved 2 minutes ago".
Strangely, alot of folks can not relate to that.
It's more often the fault of the lighter mechs than the assault for leaving the assault alone though.

Edited by KursedVixen, 19 August 2017 - 12:40 PM.


#37 Xiphias

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 03:12 PM

View PostKursedVixen, on 19 August 2017 - 12:39 PM, said:

It's more often the fault of the lighter mechs than the assault for leaving the assault alone though.

I disagree. When I play assaults I rarely have a problem keeping up with the team. While it's true that sometimes you can't keep up as an assault, most of the time a pilot gets left behind is because they either stop moving or take a poor path. I'll often end up at the front of a team while playing an Atlas going less than 60 kph. If an assault stays in the back or starts sitting in one place of course they are going to get left behind. If that does happen the best thing to do is to cut corners instead of following the tail.

Know where you are going and move with conviction and you will rarely get left behind, just make sure to pay attention to the mini map.

#38 The Basilisk

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Posted 25 August 2017 - 12:43 AM

View PostXiphias, on 23 August 2017 - 03:12 PM, said:

I disagree. When I play assaults I rarely have a problem keeping up with the team. While it's true that sometimes you can't keep up as an assault, most of the time a pilot gets left behind is because they either stop moving or take a poor path. I'll often end up at the front of a team while playing an Atlas going less than 60 kph. If an assault stays in the back or starts sitting in one place of course they are going to get left behind. If that does happen the best thing to do is to cut corners instead of following the tail.

Know where you are going and move with conviction and you will rarely get left behind, just make sure to pay attention to the mini map.


I agree.
While there truely are some matches where you team goes full Learoy Jenkins and lemingtrains into the enemy, most of the time I see Assaults get cought alone due to overfocusing and forgetting to move on (then getting left alone what still is stupid for both sides, the assault and the team) or simply due to miscommunication/no communication at all.

So: "If you don't learn nothing else whatch your map and learn to use VOIP"

Edited by The Basilisk, 25 August 2017 - 12:44 AM.


#39 Bluttrunken

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 11:33 AM

Translation:

Please, dear noob, waste your armor and hold locks for me because I am, for some reason, unable to do so myself and would be contend to waste my missiles from 800m distance, hitting buildings and other obstacles most of the time.

Of course, if I couldn't contribute to the team effort it's your fault.

yours truly
a veteran

Edited by Bluttrunken, 27 August 2017 - 11:33 AM.


#40 Trissila

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 11:18 PM

View PostBTGbullseye, on 10 August 2017 - 10:29 AM, said:

I average 1800 with at least 5 KMDD + 1 kill, and 9 assists. They do a lot of damage if you build them right.


Honestly, it's not so much a matter of you "building them right", so much as your opponents building and playing wrong.

Their failure to bring ECM. Their failure to bring AMS. Their failure to skill into Radar Dep. Their failure to position themselves appropriately, standing out in the open or choosing poor cover so that LRMs get a chance to acquire lock and make it all the way over to impact.

Running an RVN-3L with ECM and Radar Dep, I have only ever been 'legitimately' hit by LRMs (despite a number of attempts each round) once -- when I stood in front of a Dire Wolf and let him NARC me, out in the open around D5 on River City. All other hits have been when I was the last or second-to-last mech left on my team and YOLOing in the middle of the enemy team to get some last damage in before I die and the round ends.

Everything else is positioning and proper planning. Sure, you'll get a whole lot more in the way of missile locks on something heavier that's not running ECM, but that's why you're always near solid and/or tall cover -- to break locks with Radar Dep, and send missiles crashing into a building or rock if you managed to get NARC'd or are being flanked by someone providing locks for the launchers. MWO is largely about careful poking with terrain use, and when properly played as such, LRM effectiveness drops off quickly and drastically. It works alright at low tiers where people don't know any better, but it quickly becomes a waste of tonnage.





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