72 replies to this topic

[STEF_]

Brain Cancer, on 10 August 2017 - 12:31 PM, said:

Is it PGI's fault or the players for picking the same maps over and over again?

YES. It IS pgi's fault.

And all those ones asking for voting

[Captain Polux]

Lucifaust, on 10 August 2017 - 05:17 PM, said:

I can't be the only dude who likes viridian bog.

It might be my favorite map.

[Xetelian]

Brain Cancer, on 10 August 2017 - 12:31 PM, said:

Is it PGI's fault or the players for picking the same maps over and over again?

Not that we couldn't use some more maps, or rebuilds/variants of same. Even destructible walls are enough to alter how a map plays, and we have stuff like that with Incursion.

Could remove the voting and go back to random.

[Coolant]

would love an update about when new maps are coming out

[J0anna]

If they let us select what mode we want to play, I'd be ok with random map selection. But if I can't choose the mode I want to play, I don't want random maps.

For the OP, my worst map/mode is conquest on Polar Highlands, horrible base placement. I've actually played that once where the teams ran in the same direction, and first saw each other with less than 5 minutes left.

[Nebuchadnezzar2]

Caustic is actually an interesting map, but NASCAR turns it to become the worst

[Lykaon]

My (unpopular) opinion is HPG manifold as the worst map design.

But, I do have reasons for this opinion beyond "hate it"

More than two thirds of the map on most modes is completely irrelevant.

Domination it's center.
Assault the fighting is center.
Conquest the fighting is center with only the light mechs seeing the outer ranges or traveled to at the very end of the game to secure a cap point to win AFTER the enemy team is reduced to a single ECM light running on top of the wall.
etc.

The potential for this map is never realized by essentially removing more than two thirds of the map from a match by making it irrelevant. And then we have the predictable pathing of the team's movements by literally gating thier progress to the tiny relevant middle portion of the map. We could litterally have the teams drop inside the middle and change nothing about 99% of all matches played on HPG. Seriously if we altered the drop zones to C5 and F5 inside the inner wall what changes? nothing at all.

And now let's look at what we have inside the literally 5 out of 15 grids of available map that IS relevant.

A tall central feature that thankfully allows you to travel under and through it or else this would be THE official NASCAR track of MWo. A central structure that grants victory more times than not to the team lucky enough to get mechs fast enough to get on top and pilots bold enough to stay there (essentially the random matchmaker has already decided who is likely to win before your mech even powers up)

The central array has a roof covering you from LRMs and provides cover from wall snipers. So the team wanting to dislodge an entrenched enemy on the top deck better have those high mounted hardpoints to peak or...they ain't gonna win those trades. (another factor decided more by random chance than player initiative in solo queue)

Forest colony also suffers from to much useless map space but at least it isn't going to end up boiling down to ...did you get on top first? No...do you have high weapon mounts? no...go hide in a basement or something.

Edited by Lykaon, 12 August 2017 - 12:57 AM.

[Lykaon]

Nebuchadnezzar2, on 11 August 2017 - 07:32 PM, said:

Caustic is actually an interesting map, but NASCAR turns it to become the worst

There is a very simple counter to NASCAR on Caustic Valley it just requires more thought and cooperation than the mass mind of "go fast go left"

But it is a simple strategy.

SImple breakdown is when the NASCAR spiral is in full swing Have your assaults and slower heavies do the following.

STOP!
TURN 180 degrees
Form a firing line so as many of them can shoot at the bad guys.

Your faster mechs 90KPH + keep the NASCAR path (or cut across the middle cauldera) and engage the enemy's slower mechs in the rear of their NASCAR formation. These fast mechs should not fight to win but engage to delay.

If/when this works without a hitch the enemy's smaller faster stuff turns a corner to face all your big guns and won't have their assaults rolling right in behind them because they are being delayed by your team's faster mechs. Take out the enemy mediums and heavies and press directly towards the enemy assaults (that should be distracted) Your fast mechs can now range freely to engage the enemy's lights while you mop up the assaults you just caught with their pants down.

Edited by Lykaon, 12 August 2017 - 01:12 AM.

[Veolfen]

Alpine is by far the worst since it annihilate a lot of builds. Kind of don't like River City too because of that freakin river.

On the other hand, i like Viridian bog while many does not.
I also like Polar which is probably the most hated there, actually this map create way more brawls and variety of fights than some other maps (especially Alpine and Frozen city)

[Mister Blastman]

All snow maps.

Lykaon, on 12 August 2017 - 12:57 AM, said:

My (unpopular) opinion is HPG manifold as the worst map design.

HPG is arguably the best designed map.

No major chokepoints(because who fights at the doors to the arena?), multiple switchbacks, cover, options. It is versatile as hell.

[Trenchbird]

AphexTwin11, on 10 August 2017 - 02:16 PM, said:

That's my #1 gripe with all map designs - it's the scale. There is not one moment on forest colony where you feel like you're in a giant robot, as all the shrubbery and tree life dwarfs the tallest of mechs.

It''s not just forest colony either - it's almost all maps that feel like the scaling is wayyy off.

What's funny is, MWO Mechs are actually a *lot* taller than they should be. Average mech height in tabletop is roughly 10-11 meters tall, with the Atlas and Annie being among the tallest, both around 12-13 meters (Sometimes 15m in some fiction, but this could be attributed to different models.). But in MWO, the height disparity is absolutely atrocious, with some assaults being roughly 18 or so meters tall, and some lights being... Miniature. And don't even get me started on the relative height of the damn Catapult, which is shorter and smaller than a damn Jenner IIC.

If anything, the mechs in MWO should be drastically smaller. I think it'd actually make the game a lot more interesting if they downsized the mechs, or upsized the maps to make the mechs appear to be the proper scale.

Oh, and also on the point of treescale, there is a planet in canon that has trees that grow to insane heights that was conquered by Clan Ghost Bear, IIRC. I think someone made a religion out of them or something.

Edited by Catten Hart, 12 August 2017 - 08:43 AM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

scadateck, on 10 August 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:

Plexus but ONLY on Domination

Otherwise Alpine

edit/ps: Please move the Domination point on Plexus!

Totally agree. Grim Plexus if horrible on domination. The map doesn't have an once of cover in the domination zone and the match almost always goes to the team that spawns in on the side without the buildings because inevitably the other team will stop short of the domination zone to hide in those buildings and thus render themselves unable support any of their team that tries to put a toe into the objective to keep the enemy from capping. I cringe when I get Plexus on domination mode yet some many people vote it in, it is not funny.

[Dr Hobo]

Catten Hart, on 12 August 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

What's funny is, MWO Mechs are actually a *lot* taller than they should be. Average mech height in tabletop is roughly 10-11 meters tall, with the Atlas and Annie being among the tallest, both around 12-13 meters (Sometimes 15m in some fiction, but this could be attributed to different models.). But in MWO, the height disparity is absolutely atrocious, with some assaults being roughly 18 or so meters tall, and some lights being... Miniature. And don't even get me started on the relative height of the damn Catapult, which is shorter and smaller than a damn Jenner IIC.

If anything, the mechs in MWO should be drastically smaller. I think it'd actually make the game a lot more interesting if they downsized the mechs, or upsized the maps to make the mechs appear to be the proper scale.

Oh, and also on the point of treescale, there is a planet in canon that has trees that grow to insane heights that was conquered by Clan Ghost Bear, IIRC. I think someone made a religion out of them or something.

We brought this issue up during the Beta when the Centurion first came out. It was faaaar too large.

Most mechs are way too big,and honestly,it seems like the Locust and Commando are about the correct sizes.

Most of everything in Mechwarrior is too big. Leopards are pretty big compared to Battlemechs.

[Maker L106]

Also is it just me or is Alpine both hated and loved at the same time. I've played a lot of games there with no issues and some where it was just a colossal waste of time. But typically that map has some oddly variable terrain if your team is willing to move and use it. Skirmish there's actually my favorite game type simply because you CAN utilize your position to force the enemy into different situations instead of just facerolling into the team deathball vs deathball or watching that one shadowcat ERLL snipe from across the entire map. (Spoken as one of those Shadow Cat pilots at one point)

That said the maps mix of elevation, wide open area, sheer cliffs, and mountains make for an excellent variety in one location... provided the gametype doesn't dictate "you are my *****."

[Alexander of Macedon]

Mister Blastman, on 12 August 2017 - 07:42 AM, said:

All snow maps.



HPG is arguably the best designed map.

No major chokepoints(because who fights at the doors to the arena?), multiple switchbacks, cover, options. It is versatile as hell.

This. "It doesn't use 2/3 of the map space" is not a relevant complaint when you're comparing it to other maps because all of them have huge tracts of empty, unused land.

That's actually one of the reasons I like new Terra Therma so much, the lack of a big central feature or clear mid-map circular path means that engagements are a lot more varied, people wind up all over the place.

My favorite maps are Canyon Network, Mining Collective, HPG, Terra Therma, old Arctic City (new one sucks donkey dong), Tourmaline Desert (despite the godawful invisible walls everywhere), and Alpine Peaks on Assault or Skirmish.

Notable elements shared by most/all of those: multiple viable paths, verticality, good mix of tightly covered spaces and long firing lanes, a central feature which is passable and often crossed (but not camped on) during fights. They all tick at least three of those boxes.

Grim Plexus fails for the primary reason that the utter lack of cover and multiple high sniping points force people to nascar around the outer edge of the central clear area. If there were big chunks of cover along the valley that cuts between the city hill and the bare hill/crystal pond it'd be far better.

[Weeny Machine]

Bombast, on 10 August 2017 - 01:31 PM, said:

And now we have people hating map voting, and are demanding algorithms.

The cycle continues.

To be fair: when people wanted map selection no one did know that...
1. you could get a multiplier
2. that modes influence the maps which you can choose from
3. a f* map like Polar will come up
4. I am not sure if Frozen City was changed into Frozen Sh1tty at that time already

[Jman5]

Would like it if PGI could work more of the existing quickplay maps into the Faction Play line up. Mining Collective, Viridian Bog, Canyon Network. All good short or mid range maps that aren't playable. You don't need huge maps to make respawning work. Worst case scenario, you just have to reign in the dropship weapon ranges.

[Fleeb the Mad]

Alpine, with Polar as a second with skirmish being without a doubt the worst mode on either.

The common theme there is that both maps cater without exception to camping and long range poke builds with high hardpoints and LRMs. Both maps have massive open spaces and little to no hard cover. Alpine takes the crown for being particularly unbalanced with most combat focused on one dominant central feature.

Some will no doubt bring up that neither map is a flat, featureless plain without hills and elevation changes to provide some form of concealment, if not cover. However neither map gives a team an avenue of approach to close the range without having to cross a no man's land. Those who don't have LRMs or hill-hugging builds generally just have to sit back and wait for the trading game to play out.

I say skirmish is the worst mode because on Alpine it devolves purely into a fight over the mountain, where nobody is obligated to move after setting up. Having an objective on either map gives some avenue of forcing an enemy team to enter the fight or to dislodge them from a position that can't be easily attacked. Or at least gets both teams moving toward each other instead of in circles.

[Appogee]

Papaspud, on 10 August 2017 - 12:24 PM, said:

WHICH MAP IS THE WORST TO PLAY?

Potato Lurmlands.

[Nebuchadnezzar2]

Lykaon, on 12 August 2017 - 01:11 AM, said:

There is a very simple counter to NASCAR on Caustic Valley it just requires more thought and cooperation than the mass mind of "go fast go left"

But it is a simple strategy.

SImple breakdown is when the NASCAR spiral is in full swing Have your assaults and slower heavies do the following.

STOP!
TURN 180 degrees
Form a firing line so as many of them can shoot at the bad guys.

Your faster mechs 90KPH + keep the NASCAR path (or cut across the middle cauldera) and engage the enemy's slower mechs in the rear of their NASCAR formation. These fast mechs should not fight to win but engage to delay.

If/when this works without a hitch the enemy's smaller faster stuff turns a corner to face all your big guns and won't have their assaults rolling right in behind them because they are being delayed by your team's faster mechs. Take out the enemy mediums and heavies and press directly towards the enemy assaults (that should be distracted) Your fast mechs can now range freely to engage the enemy's lights while you mop up the assaults you just caught with their pants down.

Well i do agree, that is why i said it is actually an interesting map, it can be played differently but since it's pug it's nascar only