32 replies to this topic

[Bud Crue]

In answer to the thread title, the actual answer is two fold:
1) Because of the way the teams spawn, and the nature of the modes, it is typically best to "group up". So we all start moving in the same general direction in order to do that. Thus each map has their effective staging area for each side. Those spawns don't really change thus, every time each side is starting/staging from the same spot.

2) Because of PGI's fixation of providing most maps with one or two central features of which the inevitable staging areas are on opposing sides, we end up moving around (nascar) those features to engage one another, or in some cases going over them (cauldera in caustic, or mountain in alpine). But regardless there is rarely any reason to go anywhere else in order to do what we do in this game (shoot each other). Even on maps with no central feature (Polar) we still almost always engage in the same general area do the the proximity of the staging areas (see #1 above).

I believe that the easiest "fix" for this (If a "fix" is desired in that we want to be encouraged to play other areas of the map) would be random drop zones (random within reason...I don't mean dumping lances all over the map willy-nilly, but dropping teams in different general areas occasionally in closer and further proximity to one another, etc.); and to provide more asymmetric maps or at least maps that have more variety of terrrain than a giant, river, mountain, volcano, etc. smack dab between the two teams.

[Athom83]

A quick fix would be to add multiple possible domination points in various maps.

[STEF_]

Athom83, on 11 August 2017 - 07:26 AM, said:

A quick fix would be to add multiple possible domination points in various maps.

are u suggesting pgi to do conquest mode?

[Athom83]

Stefka Kerensky, on 11 August 2017 - 09:51 AM, said:

are u suggesting pgi to do conquest mode?

No. I mean for example; On certain maps the Domination point can spawn in different locations. On other maps you can have the Fuel Cells in Incursion spawn in different areas. You can have the points in Conquest pop up in different areas. Etc.

[STEF_]

Athom83, on 11 August 2017 - 10:02 AM, said:

No. I mean for example; On certain maps the Domination point can spawn in different locations. On other maps you can have the Fuel Cells in Incursion spawn in different areas. You can have the points in Conquest pop up in different areas. Etc.

well, yes!
This would be very good.
For instance in maps like Alpine, large enough, should be easy to do, and matches should be far more interesting

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

To the people saying that FW is a respawn gamemode. Its a limited respawn game mode, meaning that each life still matters just as much as it does in quick play and the loss of one is a permanent thing. In a game with true infinite respawning it doesn't matter just how many times you kill the other person or die, it matters that you can manage to hold objective points, keep a lock on all of them, and control the map. You don't have to all just walk as a herd or die from being picked off as badly as with a no respawn mode.

[JediPanther]

Also all those 54-64 slow assault mechs twitter pgi about how long it takes to get to the fight. But mostly due to what bud posted above. PGI does suck with maps being designed one or two 'features' that players have to fight around, on or over. The river city citadel is the prime example of this. I wish that dam thing would have been nuked from orbit. Despite pgi adding those rocks and little land bit in the water you still fight down the g line and rest of the map is just there.

All the maps follow this formula. Crimson straight would be better if there were multiple paths. If you have a lot of jj and points into them you can go over the mountain but most will go to the tunnel for more whack-a-mole. If you have really good speed you can go run through d past the island and snipe or shoot from that side but then you put yourself in a 12 vs 1 situation.

Pgi left the old terra map in the remake which I found funny. I went and explored it in my locust as the team went to center of map as always. It made me miss the old times of door blocking and dropping an art on my own team just to get them to move out off the ramp or out of the door way.

Alpine i'll just go back to the h 10 and lob a few lrms in dom mode or snipe since the dom point is right at the foot of it. With bad aim I can hit both teams which I try not to do. I like to win as much as anyone else.

[Bud Crue]

JediPanther, on 11 August 2017 - 10:59 AM, said:

...
All the maps follow this formula.
...

I swear the ubiquity is so bad, that they could replace most of the command wheel with just
"Enemy spotted between h8 and i9" and
"Push to G6 and wait for the enemy"

That's about all ya need.

[JediPanther]

Bud Crue, on 11 August 2017 - 11:12 AM, said:

I swear the ubiquity is so bad, that they could replace most of the command wheel with just
"Enemy spotted between h8 and i9" and
"Push to G6 and wait for the enemy"

That's about all ya need.

For moving the pug herd mentality yeah. Oddly enough I've had some successes with it for spotting with it getting the better more situational aware pugs to react and fight more. That normally happens after 4pm to around 9pm na when a lot of na players are able to get a few matches before work and other commitments. Euros I find are mostly timid until they have a 1-2 kill lead then they get death ball happy.

Pgi could make a three grid map with only an open grid in the middle and nothing would change in solo q. We'd still see mech op or weapon op, nerf this, this is doa type threads.

[Lightfoot]

I think PUGs are too chaotic to make use of map based tactics. I mean I have to plead with teamates to wait for an enemy mech to come over the hill rather than standing on the ridge and getting focus fired on. Or they want to all PUSH over the hill into the entire opposing team and die en-mass. Getting a PUG team to go somewhere unusual on a map? Well you can forget that.

[Ghogiel]

Kind of but not really the whole story.

It's partly to do with the fact everything spawns in the same place every time, and the game modes are mostly TDM and the way some maps have at best 2 routes to go to fight from/around (with 1 probably being clearly superior).
So the objective is the same every time, so people pretty much go to the same place because that's where the 99% of the action is always going to be. Why go anywhere else is the question?

And even the terrain control mode variations dom, conquest, etc can all be won via TDM play (see above), but worse still those modes are won via quickly gaining map control, which is usually done effectively in very limited ways/positions from where you spawn.

So really, added respawn alone will still just make people run from spawn to the same spots, to win the tug-o-war in attrition and then the fight moves to spawn points farm. It would take respawn + gamemode + maps. Which will nev er happen in MWO as all their maps are made to shoe horn variations on TDM into them, and the 1 time they could do something interesting they made invasion mode lol

[Snazzy Dragon]

Respawns don't change the fact that PGI has purposely designed the maps to have a strong central focus. Also, anyone that's bothered to explore the outer edges of maps like forest colony will tell you that there are areas that are either too difficult or impossible to traverse, and some of the pathways leading to the areas don't really hint at this until it would be too late to get going somewhere else before A.) the rest of your team is dead or dying B.) you get pinned down with nowhere to go

[Dr Hobo]

Worst maps
Anything that was a redone map. All of them have sucked. Looked nice,but sucked and aren't fun to play on. Except new Caustic I actually like that one.
Polar Highlands

Best maps?
Old Frozen City,a brawlers paradise
Old Forest Colony had areas for all play styles and the cave always led to some fun shennegains.
Old Viridian Bog

I liked both versions of River City. But after playing it so much,and seeing the entire one side of the map(south of the Citadel I think) is not used,whats the point?

I despise the new Frozen city. It's horrible. Same with the new Viridian. It's also horrible.

New maps don't have the verticality that old maps had. I.e the only one that does is Crimson City and Tatooine. I can hide on top of buildings and jump down to support.

It seems like the maps are slowly going to all the long range long poke gauss ERPPC friendly maps that are boring.