209 replies to this topic

[Pat Kell]

Insanity09, on 12 September 2017 - 03:59 PM, said:

Odd, since that is almost exactly one of the analogies I made before, pro vs college.

And no, as earlier, the analogy stands, because shooting people before they can even move or fire back is incredibly close to walloping people in the locker room before they are geared up. Your attempted correction is not valid.

For the record, my definition of sportsmanship includes winning (or losing) gracefully, respect for an opponent, and not taking unfair advantages or cheating.

I'd advise you to pull out your dictionary on that one, though doubtless you will say I am complaining (which lacks sportsmanship).
I will suggest that one must point out flaws, shortcomings, or errors in order to see them corrected &/or improved, and that is different from complaining. (at times, the presentation can lean to complaining, but the act itself is not, by definition, complaining)

True, simply disagreeing with me (or me with someone else) does not make one wrong.
Using words incorrectly, intentionally or otherwise, failing to understand, that can make one wrong.

My attempted correction is valid. Beating people up in the locker room is a clear violation of that sports rules. Beating people up in the spawn is not.

No need to pull out any dictionary since sportsmanship can mean different things to different people. I happen to agree with your entire definition except the part about not taking unfair advantages. "Unfair" is another term that has no set definition and is much worse than the use of sportsmanship because it is much more vague and can be used by any one in any situation to cry foul. It's a ridiculous word to use since the true meaning of it can, at best, only be marginally agreed upon and is never a set standard. So telling me that something is "unfair" in a game can be twisted to mean whatever action you don't personally like. I reject giving you are anyone else that power over another person. Set a clear standard (or rule) and everything else is fair game. If, at some point, it's generally agreed upon that some action should be against the rules, state you case and move on but that won't make any prior use of said tactic bad since it was done prior to it being against the rules. If spawn camping is banned by PGI, I will absolutely follow the rules but until then, I will use it as often as I can to win a match. I do this because everyone else in the game is perfectly capable of doing the same thing. Choosing not to is a personal choice that doesn't require me to follow along.

Complaining isn't a lack of sportsmanship when it's a valid complaint against a violation of some rule. Complaining because you got beat by a better team though is a different story. You are correct though in that you are trying to point out a situation that you think is inherently flawed and should be changed. I have no beef with that, just you tendency to exaggerate the situation. It won't help you win you case and may make it more difficult to get your point across by doing so.

Edited by Pat Kell, 13 September 2017 - 05:29 PM.

[Jon Gotham]

xe N on, on 11 August 2017 - 10:51 PM, said:

Join quick play and have fun.

Faction play is a dead horse anyway. It should be deleted from the game and erased from all history books.

Join QP and have fun?
QP is fun? Sure if you are a super solo don't-want-to-teamwork misanthrope. The op's problems started when he/she decided that they were going to play solo. Re-inforced by false perceptions of mech balance and then by lack of prersistence or self-improvement/correction i.e join a unit.

I don't like playing against the likes of EmP,EviL,Ms etc but as long as they keep quiet and don't trashtalk it's fine.

As for the spawn camping thing, well there is no moral justification of that-it's just shameful play end of. At least let a guy's feet touch ground and his weps power up. Be better men.

Edited by Jon Gotham, 13 September 2017 - 05:20 PM.

[Pat Kell]

Jon Gotham, on 13 September 2017 - 05:19 PM, said:

As for the spawn camping thing, well there is no moral justification of that-it's just shameful play end of. At least let a guy's feet touch ground and his weps power up. Be better men.

Of course there is moral justification for it. It isn't against the rules. That doesn't automatically mean that it's moral but it doesn't argue in your favor either. What does argue in my favor though is that a vast majority of the time (95%+) the only reason we shoot someone in the dropship is because they have spent a fair portion of the match using their teammates as meatshields and letting them die off early in order to pad their own stats. I find this morally repugnant and take great glee in shooting these types of players in the drop ship.

I don't do it because I am a bad person (or at least I don't think so) I do it because I don't think it's right that they should get to do any extra damage by feeding off the deaths of their team mates. No, not on my watch. You want to do damage? get your butt up there with the rest of your teammates, share your armor and all of you can live longer and do more damage. I am not interested in protecting the feelings of individuals who play this way and if you are on of the poor souls who gets wrapped up in this without being the type of person I am speaking of, then I apologize but it's hard to tell the difference when 10 of your teammates are dead and the 2 people left both have 2 mechs still in the bay. Sorry, your getting shot in the dropship. Next time, be more aggressive with your mech and help your team out. I am not going to sit back and let you farm any more damage when you play like that. I am going to do everything I can to make sure that you don't get one more shot off.

People who play like this don't deserve to get another shot off, it's self serving, self centered game play that not only ruins the game for the rest of your team but also (unintentionally) hurts yourself. By playing this way, you are more likely to lose, in my opinion, and therefore will earn less money, even if you do manage to pull out 3K damage. Nope, not interested in these people's feelings or concerns at all.

Edited by Pat Kell, 13 September 2017 - 05:47 PM.

[Leggin Ho]

Insanity09, on 12 September 2017 - 10:46 AM, said:

After some thought, I could support JeremiahRose's suggestion that a push into the enemy spawn (with sufficient tonnage/numbers) cause the match to end with a win for the side pushing into the camp.

However, there would be a few necessary changes/comment.

Every spawn would need to have multiple exits that could not be directly observed by a single overwatch point. In other words, if you can fire on one of the exit points, you cannot see or fire on one of the other ones. Further, the travel time between firing points would need to be on the order of a minute or so. (actually, this might be a really good idea, regardless)

Any team which decides to hide inside their spawn should be killed after a certain time period. @ 1 minute, a warning that 'the big guns' will be able to fire in 2 minutes, at 3 minutes (1+2), anyone hiding in the spawn gets nuked.

A win via spawn-push should NOT count for the victory bonus I suggested above unless the objective for the pushing side is simply killing the enemy. (so, attacker on siege would NOT get the bonus, the match would simply end, etc.)


Now, since many folks seem to (intentionally?) misunderstand the concept of sportsmanship, I'm sure these comments too will be to no avail.

Spawn camping is like an American football team running into the opposing team's locker room and tackling people before they can even get into their gear. They're just making the game easier by preventing their opponents from getting into the game, right?

There is a concept of allowing people to play the game, not use the obviously flawed mechanics of the game against them. What? This game has very inflexible spawn points, you are absolutely forced to use the drop zones already set up, even if there is a deadly force of enemies at that point and you will die instantly or nearly so. In reality, no force would land in such a location if there were a choice in the matter. Either the entire effort would be called off (surrender) or a different LZ would be selected/used.

Pick one: you want a challenging game (no spawn camping) OR you want an easy win (camping allowed).
Be honest.

Your spawn idea would required map reworks as well as there is no way your going to have 1 min of travel time with any of the current maps except perhaps Alpine.

You want to give a team up to 40% of the total match time (3min x4 = 12 mins of a 30 mins drop) to hide in spawn (When is this magical timers going to start as folks don't all drop at the same time, otherwise it's not respawn it's waves) and waste time because they want to be a douche and hide, but still don't want that other team to have the ability to go where they are hiding and kill them. Yeah let's custom make a game mechanic that cam be abused if a team happens to be up a kill or two. I can see giving them maybe 1 mins and the last 5 to 8 mins of the match the timers goes out the window, but 3 min's per drop is a joke.

Oh and i love how you want to punish the team taking the bigger risk by pushing away from their spawn meaning any reinforcement's they have must travel a greater distance if they push to kill the enemy, unlike the folks hiding in the spawn with your proposed 3 min safe space rule, that makes sense for folks playing a game about killing other big stompy robots.

As has been pointed out YOUR idea of sportsmanship is just that YOURS, so please don't attempt to force your idea's on others unless your agreeing to have their idea's forced on you. Get PGI to make something a rule, then it will be followed, otherwise it's just how you feel about it and as such only means something to you, not the rest of us that play this game.

[Leone]

Marquis De Lafayette, on 13 September 2017 - 08:30 AM, said:

A few days ago a couple of us 07's played in a PUG group vs. Kcom on Emerald defense. We knew exactly what Kcom would do and pushed up to meet them in force as close to the gates as we could.....

Hey, what TS do ya'll use? Don't see your unit on the NA one. I spend half of my game time pugging for IS with my alt, often trying to sync drop against 'em when they've a full group, to help give 'em a challenge. It'd be nice to drop with a unit from time to time on the IS side as well as the clan side. One does get tired of trying to hold off the enemy all alone after awhile.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 13 September 2017 - 09:39 PM.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Leone, on 13 September 2017 - 09:38 PM, said:

Hey, what TS do ya'll use? Don't see your unit on the NA one. I spend half of my game time pugging for IS with my alt, often trying to sync drop against 'em when they've a full group, to help give 'em a challenge. It'd be nice to drop with a unit from time to time on the IS side as well as the clan side. One does get tired of trying to hold off the enemy all alone after awhile.

~Leone.

We are on Strana Mechty, although we have been dropping with other units on their TS's some...any help is welcome...these IS PUGs...man o' man.

[justcallme A S H]

OK so it's taken me 45 odd days to ne able to post this... But OP - Jeremiah - You are your own problem mate.

Why do I say this?

I played against you in a PUG v PUG match on Terra and your first mech was a AWS-8R LRM boat. Your had another LRM boat in there as well. I forget what it was. I LOLd hard when I saw that. Why?

Because in all honestly you cannot come to these forums and essentially say things are unfair if you are bringing non-competitive loadouts when the mode explicitly states your opponents will be doing that.. To me that is not very intelligent at all.

Most players lose the game in the mechlab. If you continue to bring LRM boats, expect to keep getting stomped. It's no more simple or difficult than that. If you wanna LRM, by all means do it, but don't complain about the end result of bringing poor loadouts.

[Commander A9]

After reading that, I might just amend my position from "it's player skill that defines matches" to "it's player skill and loadouts which define matches."

Still, I've seen teams use LRMs to great effect...but everyone has got to do it, together, and right.

Edited by Commander A9, 17 September 2017 - 06:56 AM.

[Grus]

Come on I know if we all band together we can show that LRM's can work in FP
#lrmnewmeta
#holdlocksplease
#whydoineedatagwhenihaveotherpeopletoholdlocks
*sarcasm intensifies*

[justcallme A S H]

I have run LRM drops to devastating effect but that is with a 8-man+ and a good NARC'er. Everyone knows how to pilot, so it's pretty amusing.

And when I say pilot I mean...

Don't just stand stationary face-tanking while shooting LRMs (ie: Mazr). What most LRMboating users do not understand is that you can run full speed, unlocked arms and maintain locks while twisted/moving. It's far harder to hit a moving/twisting target than one that is literally standing still firing missiles.