58 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 August 2017 - 05:50 PM, said:

Weren't you the one who advocated using an XL on a Marauder?

Yes, because the Marauder has the same problem as the Hunchback/Shadowhawk and, on top of that, is much better at distributing damage than either a Banshee or a Battlemaster because it is both narrower and faster. It was face-palmingly embarrassing watching people try to do the whole STD 280 garbage build in MWOWC16 and fail miserably because they couldn't rotate in a timely fashion and would get disarmed all the time.

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I very rarely get side torso'd in Banshees, and usually when I do, I'd be dead in short order anyway. Same with Black Knights and Grasshoppers. Obviously it depends on how they do the hitboxes, but looking at geometry favors the Sunder in this match up. It also helps that your weapons are higher and not all the way down by your hips like on the Templar.

See statement about opponents being bad. Alternatively, you aren't enough of a threat that they feel the need to min-max how fast they need to kill you and can just take shots. Most Banshees I shoot at, I take the RT first because that's most of the firepower and, if it's an XL, I get that check. If you want the ST, and you catch him while he's facing you, you will get it. Same for the BLR.

Note, I'm not supporting the Templar. It's a garbage 'Mech and I don't particularly care for its aesthetic. But the Sunder isn't much better functionally; Assaults are too slow to rotate competent damage, and that's the entire reason why 80 damage over 1.35 seconds from an MC II is 100% superior to 60 over 0.77 from a BNC.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 12 August 2017 - 06:19 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Yeonne Greene, on 12 August 2017 - 06:19 PM, said:

Yes, because the Marauder has the same problem as the Hunchback/Shadowhawk and, on top of that, is much better at distributing damage than either a Banshee or a Battlemaster because it is both narrower and faster. It was face-palmingly embarrassing watching people try to do the whole STD 280 garbage build in MWOWC16 and fail miserably because they couldn't rotate in a timely fashion and would get disarmed all the time.



See statement about opponents being bad. Alternatively, you aren't enough of a threat that they feel the need to min-max how fast they need to kill you and can just take shots. Most Banshees I shoot at, I take the RT first because that's most of the firepower and, if it's an XL, I get that check. If you want the ST, and you catch him while he's facing you, you will get it. Same for the BLR.

Note, I'm not supporting the Templar. It's a garbage 'Mech and I don't particularly care for its aesthetic. But the Sunder isn't much better functionally; Assaults are too slow to rotate competent damage, and that's the entire reason why 80 damage over 1.35 seconds from an MC II is 100% superior to 60 over 0.77 from a BNC.

Whatever man. If you liked getting XL checked all the time in your Marauder that's your prerogative, but running an XL seemed pretty dumb due to how large the STs were from the side.

The Sunder's geometry makes it look MUCH more XL safe than the Templar, if you can't see that for whatever reason, than there's no point in discussing it because you'll never see it. Between that and the fact that most of the hardpoints are close to cockpit level, even the arms, the Sunder looks like it will be better than the Templar.

The Hauptmann is another argument, but the Templar should be the last IS omni assault hands down, because its the worst of the lot.

[The Lighthouse]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 August 2017 - 09:00 PM, said:

Whatever man. If you liked getting XL checked all the time in your Marauder that's your prerogative, but running an XL seemed pretty dumb due to how large the STs were from the side.

The Sunder's geometry makes it look MUCH more XL safe than the Templar, if you can't see that for whatever reason, than there's no point in discussing it because you'll never see it. Between that and the fact that most of the hardpoints are close to cockpit level, even the arms, the Sunder looks like it will be better than the Templar.

The Hauptmann is another argument, but the Templar should be the last IS omni assault hands down, because its the worst of the lot.

First of all, off-topic, Gas Guzzler I made a comment on your mech poll discussion. You may want to check it out. If you can't add them, it's still cool : https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__5862038


Now, on-topic, I feel Sunder is not that XL safe.... The fact is none of mechs that are heavy or assault are XL safe unless the mech has agility of a medium mech AND good shape, but even that is debatable since all of heavy and assault mechs are going to be huge as f***. Black Knight is probably the closest thing that can survive with XL, but from my experience, my side torsos always give up when I play mechs like Grasshopper and other heavy mechs.

But, Templar is indeed truly garbage tier in terms of hitboxes. No way this can survive longer than 30 seconds after the engagement begins with that torso and overall mech shape.

Edited by The Lighthouse, 12 August 2017 - 09:31 PM.

[Battlemaster56]

TBH between the Sunder and Templar they both can be easily XL checked, by either large ST or they can be easily Isolated under focus fired. They both have ways to somewhat protect their ST's either with large shield arms or huge CT to spread the damage to.

At the end it all bout who'll have fun piloting these mechs.

[Gas Guzzler]

The Lighthouse, on 12 August 2017 - 09:31 PM, said:

First of all, off-topic, Gas Guzzler I made a comment on your mech poll discussion. You may want to check it out. If you can't add them, it's still cool : https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__5862038


Now, on-topic, I feel Sunder is not that XL safe.... The fact is none of mechs that are heavy or assault are XL safe unless the mech has agility of a medium mech AND good shape, but even that is debatable since all of heavy and assault mechs are going to be huge as f***. Black Knight is probably the closest thing that can survive with XL, but from my experience, my side torsos always give up when I play mechs like Grasshopper and other heavy mechs.

But, Templar is indeed truly garbage tier in terms of hitboxes. No way this can survive longer than 30 seconds after the engagement begins with that torso and overall mech shape.

I dunno, I still play a DS with an XL, and when I was running the XL Highlander, I would either die to CT or RT. Even without XL, if I lost my RT I would have no weapons... so meh. It kind of seem silly to say "Oh, we will never have the Sunder in game because it comes with a locked in XL360."

At least it has pretty high hardpoints and can minimize exposure, and I'm sure it will get good agility stats because its a mobile assault (see Cyclops).

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 12 August 2017 - 09:41 PM.

[The Lighthouse]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 August 2017 - 09:40 PM, said:

I dunno, I still play a DS with an XL, and when I was running the XL Highlander, I would either die to CT or RT. Even without XL, if I lost my RT I would have no weapons... so meh. It kind of seem silly to say "Oh, we will never have the Sunder in game because it comes with a locked in XL360."

At least it has pretty high hardpoints and can minimize exposure, and I'm sure it will get good agility stats because its a mobile assault (see Cyclops).

Well, I didn't say we won't have those mechs. Thing is, as we seen on how mechs like Uziel sells very well despite how crappy the mech's actual performance is in-game (why do people like this mech anyway? It was not even that good mech even in MW4), while mechs like Roughneck, despite borderline imba armor quirks, is still rare thing to see even after cbill release. The whole mechpack market has been driven by nostalgia and I have no doubt classic favorites such as Templar and Sunder would sell very well even if they turn out to be literally clumsy coffins.

I conjure that Templar is probably more closer to be included in the game than Sunder, just by pure cosmetic reasons (you know, both name and look cool.... I guess.)

[Gas Guzzler]

The Lighthouse, on 12 August 2017 - 09:56 PM, said:

I conjure that Templar is probably more closer to be included in the game than Sunder, just by pure cosmetic reasons (you know, both name and look cool.... I guess.)

I don't think so, there is more nostalgia associated with the Sunder due to MW3 and then MW4 again.

Templar looks dumb too. HUGE shoulders with tiny little arms. Dumb.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 12 August 2017 - 10:31 PM.

[Gusevich]

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[color=#959595]IS Omnimechs would be considered content mate![/color]

[color=#959595]You can not stem the flow of mechs, Mechpacks = PGI's main source of income. Do not like it? kind of tough luck.[/color]

[color=#959595]P.S. what is with some people getting butte hurt over mech discussion? Like if you are a vegan do you go into a general grocery store and start yelling you are not buying the meat and other products using animal products? Well I guess some do...but most normal people would not.... But it is the same thing here...do not like it? why the hell are you posting about it here then?!?!

[/color]

[color=#959595]Wow...this is the MOST idiotic comparison i've read in a long, long time.

If IS omnimechs are considered by you guys "actual content", then just have ******' fun on empty servers Soon™, on same stale boring maps, with no actual gamemodes apart from a glorified skirmish, and a pointless FW.[/color]

[Battlemaster56]

Gusevich, on 12 August 2017 - 10:30 PM, said:

[/font][/color]

[color=#959595]Wow...this is the MOST idiotic comparison i've read in a long, long time.[/color]

If IS omnimechs are considered by you guys "actual content", then just have ******' fun on empty servers Soon™, on same stale boring maps, with no actual gamemodes apart from a glorified skirmish, and a pointless FW.

Let see.

A) If PGI release a new map and doesn't have the holy three things to make a map "good", it have to have perfect visuals (no darkness, smoke, dust, etc.), open for all types of weapons, with little to no obstructions (rocks, roots, rubble, etc.), perfect temperature (means no hot desert maps or, lava or, near a blue main star). If it don't have any of these qualities it the map is automatically put in the bad map box where players will never vote for and will never see again.

Well if the rewards wasn't so heavily biased in a ARENA FPS, let me repeat that for you... A ARENA FPS Then sure we could have gamemodes less like skirmish but that's not the case the majority of the player base want only simple stompy shooting robots, just shoot shoot and shoot some more not play the objective. And when PGI provides the community with such gamemodes with strong objectives that can win the game it comes out with a glaring issue (Escorts VIP AI, and God towers) the community instantly condones it to death rather, or incursion and how lazy everyone is to protect their base when a squad of lights decide to destroy the base when their team is getting stomped.

B1) Also PGI need to look over some of the gamemodes and look at the issues and try fixing them, most are pretty simple, and be very beneficial.

C) FW is a lost cost the only real way of saving it, is to trash the whole thing a work from scratch and balance between Mercs, loyalist, and freelancers. and make separate queues for solo and groups running into FW. And making it more engaging to the player.

Now if you got anything on topic about the mech Templar I suggest you leave this thread, and move on or simply make the 8256 thread about no content and the issues about the game.

And good day lass.

[The Lighthouse]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 August 2017 - 10:25 PM, said:

I don't think so, there is more nostalgia associated with the Sunder due to MW3 and then MW4 again.

Templar looks dumb too. HUGE shoulders with tiny little arms. Dumb.

Well.... from other pictures arms are big enough.

Yeah, completely forgot that ugly Sunder was in MW4. After more than a decade I am beginning to forget things.

[El Bandito]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 August 2017 - 10:25 PM, said:

I don't think so, there is more nostalgia associated with the Sunder due to MW3 and then MW4 again.

Templar looks dumb too. HUGE shoulders with tiny little arms. Dumb.

Looks can be easily changed.




MW4, for example had different iteration of the Templar.




As long as it has good hardpoints, Alex can make it into something nice.

[Athom83]

Arnold The Governator, on 12 August 2017 - 05:36 PM, said:

This debate between IS omnimechs is between the people that really want them in game, since I could care less about IS omni's in general. However, the more I look at the TRO Sunder I see alot of problems with it.

If I am looking at this properly, is that cockpit located at it's center torso? I know unless this thing doesn't get mega quirks in game, it's going to be a disaster with it's hit boxes. Also one other thing I wanted to point out is that SRM rack above the cockpit. Is that CASE protected? No offense Gas, but unless Alex alters it's design, PGI showers it with quirks, and fixes IS XL engine durability I see this thing being DOA.

The Jenner's cockpit would be CT as well with that logic. The only mech I recall off the top of my head with an actual CT mounted cockpit is the Gotterdammerung. Hitboxes won't be such an issue for XLs as the ST are actually pretty small compared to the CT. The Uziel also has a missile rack above the cockpit, so there is a precedence there for that existing.

[CK16]

Ok, throw Crusader in here as well you guys can try to reclaim the Holy Land now lol.

[Tarogato]

Looks like a walking XL-check to me.

HelI, it's not even an XL-check, it's an XL-confirm every time you shoot its side torsos.

[Requiemking]

Bring on all the Medieval mechs. Merlin, Lancelot, Excalibur, Dragonfire, Hammer, Battleaxe, Crossbow, ect...

[Chados]

IS omnis. With locked XLs. All side torso all the time. Yuge boxy battlemech...vs a Scorch or Deathstrike.

Poof.

If they were LFEs or Clan XLs, I’d be for it, but IS XLs are a death trap. Victors got gud when the LFE came out. I bet you don’t see a lot of 9S or 9A1 or DS Victors running the old XL builds anymore.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Chados, on 23 December 2017 - 03:59 AM, said:

IS omnis. With locked XLs. All side torso all the time. Yuge boxy battlemech...vs a Scorch or Deathstrike.

Poof.

If they were LFEs or Clan XLs, I’d be for it, but IS XLs are a death trap. Victors got gud when the LFE came out. I bet you don’t see a lot of 9S or 9A1 or DS Victors running the old XL builds anymore.

Time for that started-as-a-joke-but-now-I-really-like-it engine suggestion!

Give all OmniMechs (including future IS ones) Clan XL behaviour (penalty on ST loss)
Give all BattleMechs IS XL behaviour (death on ST loss)
If required, give Clans the option of a new, non-lore LFE (but it takes up 3 slots per ST, not 1, not 2)

Reigns in the worst offenders, gives OmniMechs a new advantage over BattleMechs, means less IS OmniMechs are DoA, improves faction balance.

[Asa Caradine]

The Templars[T] approve this message

[CK16]

Bump!