29 replies to this topic

[Smites]

Greetings MechWarriors. Got a simple question for everyone. Why does the IS LFE have the same exact penalties as the Clan XL while weighing more when everything else for the IS already weighs more? LFF is nice but that half ton you gain from it doesn't really compare to just going full XL and twisting, it seems.

[Bombast]

Tabletop rules. The LFE was a 'bridge gap' design - The rugged nature of the Clan XL, but using crap IS materials and manufacturing.

In MWO, the LFE doesn't really replaces the XL - It replaces Standard engines in a couple of chassis, mostly heavies and some assaults (The ones that don't need every spare crit). Everything that needed an XL before still does now.

[Vxheous]

LFE isn't a replacement for twisting....you should be twisting regardless of what engine you're running. That being said, LFE should have a lower penalty compared to CXL, but PGI reasons.

[Smites]

Bombast, on 14 August 2017 - 04:43 PM, said:

Tabletop rules. The LFE was a 'bridge gap' design - The rugged nature of the Clan XL, but using crap IS materials and manufacturing.

In MWO, the LFE doesn't really replaces the XL - It replaces Standard engines in a couple of chassis, mostly heavies and some assaults (The ones that don't need every spare crit). Everything that needed an XL before still does now.

Right. I think I may've misspoke. I'm asking why LFE, which weighs significantly more, doesn't have reduced penalties for tech parity? Nobody will take the standard anyway with this except for a few niche builds, so why do this?

[Bombast]

Smites, on 14 August 2017 - 04:46 PM, said:

Right. I think I may've misspoke. I'm asking why LFE, which weighs significantly more, doesn't have reduced penalties for tech parity? Nobody will take the standard anyway with this except for a few niche builds, so why do this?

Why does IS Endo and Ferro still take up 14 crits? Why does every weapon system weight more for them? What's the meaning of life?

[Smites]

Bombast, on 14 August 2017 - 04:50 PM, said:

Why does IS Endo and Ferro still take up 14 crits? Why does every weapon system weight more for them? What's the meaning of life?

1.Because TT, which is fine.
2.Because TT. Which is still fine.
3.47, which is 42 adjusted for inflation.

[Rovertoo]

Smites, on 14 August 2017 - 04:46 PM, said:

Right. I think I may've misspoke. I'm asking why LFE, which weighs significantly more, doesn't have reduced penalties for tech parity? Nobody will take the standard anyway with this except for a few niche builds, so why do this?

Personally I take it over standard every time. And XLs most of the time, I am not a fan of dying when I get my shoulder shot off, so xls are now a light-mech only thing for me now. I love my Lfes! That said giving them the excact penalties does seem a bit cruel, I feel that clans should get good stuff with extreme penalties, IS should get meh stuff with not-so-bad penalties
I think they should just give LFEs half the penalties that clan Xls have, that aughta be okay

[LT. HARDCASE]

Half weight saving should be half penalties. It's that simple.

Edited by LT. HARDCASE, 14 August 2017 - 06:06 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Smites, on 14 August 2017 - 04:39 PM, said:

Greetings MechWarriors. Got a simple question for everyone. Why does the IS LFE have the same exact penalties as the Clan XL while weighing more when everything else for the IS already weighs more? LFF is nice but that half ton you gain from it doesn't really compare to just going full XL and twisting, it seems.

LORE

/thread

Ok not end... Some of the TT values shouldn't hold place in a FPS because - balance. But people get their jimmies far too Russtled over it

//100% end

[Khobai]

Quote

Why does the IS LFE have the same exact penalties as the Clan XL while weighing more when everything else for the IS already weighs more?

because PGI cant balance

[Pjwned]

Smites, on 14 August 2017 - 04:46 PM, said:

Right. I think I may've misspoke. I'm asking why LFE, which weighs significantly more, doesn't have reduced penalties for tech parity? Nobody will take the standard anyway with this except for a few niche builds, so why do this?

Probably because it's stupid to buff 1 engine type and not the other 2.

Pjwned, on 15 July 2017 - 10:18 PM, said:

If you're going to argue for LFE buffs then at least be consistent with your bad ideas and argue for STD & XL buffs at the same time.

If you can't argue for buffs to all 3 engine types then it makes even less sense to just buff 1 of them.

Why are people bringing up this incredibly stupid idea lately anyways? The only reason I can see is that PGI has not indicated in any way that they're going to buff XL or STD engines--indeed they actually said the opposite a while ago--so people seem to think they can still get PGI to single out LFE for a buff despite that being an even worse idea.

[kapusta11]

Yea, it sucks when you lose a ST on a mech with small LFE engine. Your speed goes from barely acceptable down to a crawl levels.

Edited by kapusta11, 14 August 2017 - 11:48 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

kapusta11, on 14 August 2017 - 11:41 PM, said:

Yea, it sucks when you lose a ST on a mech with small LFE engine. Your speed goes from barely acceptable down to a crawl levels.

Wait, well now you are just complaining about what is essentially the 2 sides to die base system as it is. STD engines are the only engines that have ever functioned "well" at one lost ST (no added side effects other than everything lost from the ST and arm loss).

If you think it sucks and is barely worth it to lose heat efficiency and speed on top of the normal structure point losses of an ST being destroyed... Then clans have sucked this whole time..

[Trollfeed]

Shifty McSwift, on 15 August 2017 - 12:07 AM, said:

Wait, well now you are just complaining about what is essentially the 2 sides to die base system as it is. STD engines are the only engines that have ever functioned "well" at one lost ST (no added side effects other than everything lost from the ST and arm loss).

If you think it sucks and is barely worth it to lose heat efficiency and speed on top of the normal structure point losses of an ST being destroyed... Then clans have sucked this whole time..

He's agreeing to post which is complaining about LFE having same penalties than clan XL even when it has only half of the weight savings clan XL has. Do you honestly think that he doesn't know side torso loss penalties for clan xl engine?

Edited by Trollfeed, 15 August 2017 - 04:49 AM.

[Smites]

Pjwned, on 14 August 2017 - 11:36 PM, said:

Probably because it's stupid to buff 1 engine type and not the other 2.

So it's stupid to ask why LFE, which offers only half of the weight savings for the survivability of C-XL, has the exact same penalty as C-XL?

[Sjorpha]

It should have no ST loss penalties, that would make it a reasonable give and take when compared with Clan XL.

Let IS XL survive a ST loss with the same penalties as Clan XL, it would still be strictly worse since it's larger but no biggie.

Give standard engines 1 extra internal heatsink slot.

Edited by Sjorpha, 15 August 2017 - 07:00 AM.

[Khobai]

ISXL should survive side torso destruction with same penalties as CXL

LFE should be able to survive both side torsos being destroyed, but suffer half penalties for each side torso destroyed (full penalties if both side torsos are destroyed)

STD should never suffer penalties and should also give a substantial CT structure bonus

all three engines would be balanced then

Edited by Khobai, 15 August 2017 - 07:17 AM.

[Gaius Cavadus]

Some structure bonuses isn't enough to make STDs a real choice. They need a solid bonus to heat capacity and, maybe, some bonuses to ghost heat.

[Khobai]

Quote

Some structure bonuses isn't enough to make STDs a real choice.

which is why I said substantial structure bonuses not "some"

id consider using a STD engine on certain mechs if it gave like +50 CT structure

[Jay Leon Hart]

Shifty McSwift, on 15 August 2017 - 12:07 AM, said:

STD engines are the only engines that have ever functioned "well" at one lost ST

If you think it sucks and is barely worth it to lose heat efficiency and speed on top of the normal structure point losses of an ST being destroyed... Then clans have sucked this whole time..

Except the number of years Clan XLs had no penalty at all, of course...