21 replies to this topic

[Yogge Mothi]

ATMs have been a surprisingly fun addition to the game and I've been having a lot of success with them. Just like streaks, they can home in on the target. However, ATMs hit as a cluster while streaks spread equally across all components. This makes ATMs a viable weapon, while streaks are rarely seen at higher levels of play. Why can't streaks cluster their damage? They would remain effective against light mechs, but it would make them somewhat relevant against larger mechs as well. Am I alone in thinking this should be changed?

[El Bandito]

Because PGI can't balance for ****. Before this, SSRMs mostly targeted CT, which made it a very deadly weapon. PGI's attempt to fix it had resulted in a papercut ****** weapon that is only good against 40 tonner or below.

If PGI wanted it to spread but still remain viable, then they should have at least make it prioritize 3 torsi sections, instead of including limbs.

Edited by El Bandito, 17 August 2017 - 08:18 AM.

[Andi Nagasia]

i say give SSRMs, LBX levels of Crit Chance and we may see this weapon come back,
(14% chance to do 4Damage per Missile)(8% chance to do 8Dam/Missile)(3% chance to do 12Dam/Missile)

as you cant aim at open locations, this will keep it from being too powerful
(as only 1 missile is likely to hit every area(SSRM6) so it will do much more damage the more open the target is,

[Angel of Annihilation]

Yogge Mothi, on 17 August 2017 - 08:14 AM, said:

ATMs have been a surprisingly fun addition to the game and I've been having a lot of success with them. Just like streaks, they can home in on the target. However, ATMs hit as a cluster while streaks spread equally across all components. This makes ATMs a viable weapon, while streaks are rarely seen at higher levels of play. Why can't streaks cluster their damage? They would remain effective against light mechs, but it would make them somewhat relevant against larger mechs as well. Am I alone in thinking this should be changed?

I agree. I loaded up a 3 X SSRM6 loadout on my Stormcrow last night and ended up running across a Crit CT Cyclops. With standard SRMs, ATMs or hell even LRMs it would have been an easy kill. With Streaks....nope. Fired 3 full volleys into him at point blank range and not one of the 54 missiles I shot at him hit that cherry red crit CT to finish him off. All went arms and legs. He killed me needless to say.

Seriously, if I am going to invest that much weight into a weapons system, it has got to be reliable enough hitting the CT to finish off a mech that is only hanging on by 5-6 structure to its CT.

[Monkey Lover]

Because theyre a low skill weapon that hits almost 100% of the time.

[Khobai]

Quote

Because theyre a low skill weapon that hits almost 100% of the time.

and lasers arnt? lasers are as easy mode as it gets. and you can aim lasers at specific locations.

the problem with SSRMs is that they spread damage so badly that theyre only good against lights.

if you want to make SSRMs better you need to increase their penetrative power by upping the damage per missile. And regular SRMs probably need their damage per missile increased too.

Id like to try IS-SRMs/SSRMs at 2.3 damage and C-SRMs/SSRMs at 2.15 damage

As well as a x2 buff to the missile spread and high explosive skill nodes which are currently useless.

Edited by Khobai, 17 August 2017 - 10:35 AM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 17 August 2017 - 10:29 AM, said:

and lasers arnt? lasers are as easy mode as it gets. and you can aim lasers at specific locations.

Lasers require at least a little bit of precision aim or else they spread damage uselessly. SSRMs never need any degree of aim because they CANNOT be aimed.

And seriously, back when SSRMs tracked the CT it was incredibly stupid that you could just consistently hit the most vital location on an enemy mech with not even a tiny bit of effort applied.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Khobai, on 17 August 2017 - 10:29 AM, said:

and lasers arnt? lasers are as easy mode as it gets. and you can aim lasers at specific locations.

the problem with SSRMs is that they spread damage so badly that theyre only good against lights.

if you want to make SSRMs better you need to increase their penetrative power by upping the damage per missile. And regular SRMs probably need their damage per missile increased too.

Id like to try IS-SRMs/SSRMs at 2.3 damage and C-SRMs/SSRMs at 2.15 damage

As well as a x2 buff to the missile spread and high explosive skill nodes which are currently useless.

SRMs absolutely do not need their damage increased, not in the slightest. I can do crazy amounts of damage with my SRM splat builds. Hell even a couple SRM4s on my Assassin can spit out crazy damage.

The problem with Streaks is they are wired to hit only non-critical areas of a mech so rarely hit CT or even ST for that matter and if I recall correctly, will never hit the head. That is great for taking out arms and legs and why they are so effect against light mechs but anything with 40+ armor on its legs isn't going to be worrying all that much about streaks. At least some, maybe 1/3 to 1/2 of that damage needs to actually hit critical areas of the mech like the CT or ST. Been saying this for years in fact and it is one of the reasons I never use Streaks.

[Insanity09]

Streaks do need to be fixed. The spread they have currently is a joke. A very bad one.
The only way to have a hope of them being even marginally effective is by boating them.

If ATMs are behaving reasonably, by which I mean that they are actually targeting a component and spreading from there, then the streak logic needs to be altered to adopt the ATM method. I've not yet used ATMs, so I'm not clear how those missiles work in game.


Alternatively I can see two ways of handling this, both based on crosshair location. One, if you are locked on a mech, and your X-hair is not actually on the enemy mech, then yes, the SSRM should behave as it does now, with the missiles going every which way, but still homing in and hitting. That's fair. However, IF you have your X-hair actually on the enemy mech when you fire, then just like regular SRMs, the missiles should focus on that location, with reasonable spread (at that point we might call it scatter).
If that's too tough to program... <shakes head sadly>

As for them hitting 100% of the time, you already pay for that in three ways. One, they have short range. Two, they are heavier (and more expensive) than regular SRMs. Three, you must maintain a lock in order to fire them.
The latter means that even though they are a brawling weapon, which SRMs of any kind tend to be, you have to have face time to maintain your locks and continue firing, which means minimal twisting. That is a very heavy price.
Under those circumstances, watching the missiles spread to all four corners of the mech is just soul-crushing.

Edited by Insanity09, 17 August 2017 - 11:48 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

Yeah, please buff SSRMs because they aren't deadly enough vs lights. Geez, it seems none of you even plays light mechs.

That aside: an easy auto-lock weapon shouldn't be overly effective in a shooter. I bet you guys are also playing an adventure with a walkthrough next to you.

[Baba Yogi]

I think cooldown is its biggest weakness. I have used IS SSRM6s, and they are actually quite useful. Outright deadly against lights, as it does ignore hitreg automatically. And it actually deals decent dps heavier targets while not being the best short range weapon. clans can use that 4 second cooldown.

[dario03]

They should lower streak damage, increase ammo/T to offset, decrease cooldown time, and make them more accurate as the target increases in tonnage. Against lights they can spread like they do now, against heavies and assaults they could hit mostly torso. Have them have less dps than srms though because of the always hit, and even more so with clans because of extra range. With the right amount of tweaking they could end up being balanced against the weight classes instead of just anti-light/small medium weapon.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Bush Hopper, on 17 August 2017 - 11:49 AM, said:

Yeah, please buff SSRMs because they aren't deadly enough vs lights. Geez, it seems none of you even plays light mechs.

That aside: an easy auto-lock weapon shouldn't be overly effective in a shooter. I bet you guys are also playing an adventure with a walkthrough next to you.

I don't think anyone is taking a buff, rather they are talking about changing how the work. SSRMs are deadly to lights because they take off their lightly armored legs. If the spread was changed to target the legs a bit less and other parts a bit more, it would like lead to SSRMs actually being less effective against lights.

As to your last comment. The point isn't that they auto-lock, the point is that they should actually work and be as effective as other means of damaging an enemy. A cherry red, crit CT enemy shouldn't be immune to 18 SSRMs because none of the missiles every target the CT. Instead there should be an equal chance of hitting the CT. Also hate to break it to you but SSRMs aren't as easy to use as you make out. ECM plays merry hell with their ability to lock targets and if you don't have a lock you can't even dumb fire the missiles. Also a SSRM6 has like a 5-6 fricken second cooldown so you sure as hell aren't spamming Streaks at your target. Finally even if ECM isn't around, it still takes a few seconds to get a lock. Often and enemy can pop out, shoot you and scoot back to cover before you even manage to get a lock. Sorry but there is a whole hell of alot of Con to go along with any Pro that being able to lock on provides.

[Jun Watarase]

Ive got an idea : Make streaks spread like ATMs but fire in a stream and require locks. SRMs have the same spread but dont require locks and fire all at once.

That makes streaks more useful but still gives normal SRMs a niche since the lock on time can get you killed.

[Cyborne Elemental]

El Bandito, on 17 August 2017 - 08:17 AM, said:

Because PGI can't balance for ****. Before this, SSRMs mostly targeted CT, which made it a very deadly weapon. PGI's attempt to fix it had resulted in a papercut ****** weapon that is only good against 40 tonner or below.

If PGI wanted it to spread but still remain viable, then they should have at least make it prioritize 3 torsi sections, instead of including limbs.

If they hit the 3 Center sections of the mech, IMO that would be a huge improvement.
Also gives players on the recieving a choice to Twist to protect the more critical components (ENGINE), or preserve Arm weapons by staring.

Puts a little bit of "thinking" back into the game, which is what all balance changes should be scrutinized over much more.

Edited by The Trojan Titan, 17 August 2017 - 07:08 PM.

[SamsungNinja]

As someone that loves streaks on the MDD, I'd be happy if it just ignored legs. Would make it slightly less doomsday against lights, while not dumping your dps into an Atlas's legs.

[Y E O N N E]

Viktor Drake, on 17 August 2017 - 03:46 PM, said:

I don't think anyone is taking a buff, rather they are talking about changing how the work. SSRMs are deadly to lights because they take off their lightly armored legs everything except sometimes the torsos.

ftfy

If they worked like ATMs, it would shred lights even harder because now all of those missiles are going for center mass and, boom, no more side torso.

[JC Daxion]

If i had a magic wand..

I would add a "dumb fire" option..


This option would give them a larger spread than the normal SRM of their size, and have a longer recharge, making them a far worse launcher over all.. BUT at times you really should have that option.

I just wonder if that would make them to strong, but in some ways i think not. If the spread was large enough, meaning you would have to be close to the larger mechs. It would make it so they were no longer targeting arms/legs persay, but the bulk of the missiles would be hitting the torso at a decent range, and up close it would still spread to maybe two sections on the largest of mechs at very close range.

I do wonder if they could have two seperate codes one for lock on, and lock off? I'd say a toggle would be needed, and perhaps a cooldown to swap between the two modes.


This obviously is not a simple fix, and a total rework of the weapon.. But that said, i would love to see a total rework of LRM's too, this one though i think would be an easier change, as they did sorta work the second way at one time. So kinda bring back some of that old code

Yeonne Greene, on 17 August 2017 - 07:43 PM, said:

ftfy

If they worked like ATMs, it would shred lights even harder because now all of those missiles are going for center mass and, boom, no more side torso.

Yea.. that is the thing.. I was kinda thinking more like MRM's the big ol cluster dumb fire

[Khobai]

the whole point of streaks is that they dont dumbfire

you dont put the most sophisticated guidance system ever developed by mankind onto a missile and then dumbfire it.

it would be better if things in the game didnt prevent you from locking on in the first place. ECM is not supposed to prevent missile lockons. and the fact you cant shoot buildings with streaks in incursion is just stupid.

[Insanity09]

As someone who pilots lights on a regular basis, I can't say that I enjoy running into mechs equipped with streaks.

However, streaks as implemented currently are a bad joke, notable as only effective against lights, marginal against mediums. That's a problem. Heck, I'd rather hit an enemy with LRMs, at least the grouping is better.
A while back, I tried a couple cSSRM6s on my LBK. I swear that one time I fired it looked like I got one missile into each component except the head (I know 2 missiles must have hit a few components, but one each is what it looked like). That level of spread/scatter is effectively useless for the weight/space/heat/range/lock requirement, and those were clan launchers, IS are worse. I pulled the streaks off after that. (I only tried them again for the TAG part of this event, yup, still unbelievably horrible.)

Iirc, I suggested that if you were able to actually hold your crosshair on a mech as you fired, then it should have better targeting. Specifically, the grouping should be more focused on the part of the enemy your crosshair was on.

Say with an SSRM6, 3 of your missiles would hit where the Xhair was, the rest would scatter. Basically, call it half the missiles hit what you targetted, the rest go all over, since that would work fine with 2's, 4's, or 6's. Of course, twisting &/or fast moving targets might cause a little more scatter, or perhaps not.

If, when you fired your crosshair wasn't on the enemy mech, then the missiles would behave pretty much exactly like they do now, scattered everywhere with no rhyme or reason.

Streaks are intended to be deadly towards lights, but I don't see how my suggestion that would make them much worse than they already are, given the trouble many folks have of holding their Xhair on a specific spot on a fast moving light. In fact, given their size and speed, and the vagaries of lag/latency/ping, I suspect that many shots would get counted as no Xhair on the enemy. (if the light isn't moving, that's his mistake)
But for goodness sake, let the streaks be better in some situations.