29 replies to this topic

[Trenchbird]

"Twin ATM-12s are super OP!"

Tell that to the Stormcrow I kind of just laughed at last week as I killed his buddy, with my back to him, and then turned, got into his minimums, and then whacked with 24 SRM tubes until he died.

ATMs seem to have most of the same issues as IS LRMs, Clan LRMs, plus Streak SRMs combined (Minimum Range, Streamfire, "Straight" trajectory rather than curved) , but the balancing factor is a longer overall range and a great medium/short range. It's pretty well balanced IMO.

Edited by Catten Hart, 18 August 2017 - 02:43 PM.

[Stinger554]

Khobai, on 18 August 2017 - 01:17 PM, said:

The way ATMs were implemented into MWO is a travesty.

ATMs are meant to be a versatile, flexible weapon thats capable, but not great, in all range bands.

Theyre not supposed to be an inflexible niche 120m-270m weapon that slams things for broken amounts of damage.

That is not in the spirit of the weapon.


ATMs should have no min range, they should have 50% more health per missile to survive the tyranny of AMS, and they should have their damage changed to a flat amount of damage, say 2.0-2.2 damage per missile, instead of their damage stepping down from 3/2/1. No min range and more HP is a fair tradeoff for less damage at short range.

Agreed ATMs shouldn't have a minimum range FFS. I'd rather have 2ish damage with no minimum range than 3 with that asinine 120 minimum range.

[panzer1b]

meh, while ATMs are really strong on paper (and with good positioning you can break 1K dmg without too much difficulty), they have too many hard counters not to mention that the damage spreads like crazy on anything that isnt a direwolf sized assault (and even there you are still likely to direct at least 50% of it away from what you want to hit).

Anything with but 1 AMS will cut a good chunk out of the damage, and double AMS and skills is going to stop over half a ATM-48 alfa strike (and nullify it completely if you chain fire or even fire 24 and 24. Cover is another issue, yeah it works if someone is in the open, but if they are then ATMs are the least of their concerns and they are pretty much gonna die nomatter what your team has equipped. Then ofc you have ECM, and ofc range, ECM can be removed via tag, but even then you need to be within 300m to really hurt something with ATMs, and light tag/bap is too short range to engage ECM outside of a brawl. Finally, anything gets within 120m of you are ur as good as a free kill (unless the mech you have is exceptionally fast, and no good ATM boats can break 90kph that im aware of).

Anyways, while you can get 1000+ dmg, i can get 600 dmg and kill 2-3 mechs with it more or less all by myself using laser/gauss vomit. Damage is there, but if 50% of that damage goes where you want, then 50% is useless (and while by no means does laser dmg always hit its mark, im pretty sure the effective damage is at least 75% if not higher. I like ATMs and i do like the fact that they are actually semi useable unlike LRMs, but its not exactly "competitive" or even that good at high tiers...

[STEF_]

"break the FPS gamplay"????

OMG, has pgi done something good????

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 18 August 2017 - 03:55 PM.

[Lykaon]

BEARDOOM, on 18 August 2017 - 12:27 PM, said:

Warriors... I'm brawler from begining. Assoults, ballistics, heavyes SRM's, but never LRM, ATM. Now that I know for this, that you click without aiming, just TAG and bambam. I say this is "moron mode". This whole LRM, ATM, SSRM... MUST, MUST be much more spreaded, and little nerfed wit distance.
Question... Why I aim with UAC20, UAC10, AC10...??? When I just click withou aiming and 1K DMG.


I play games since 1985 SPECTRUM... This is FPS.

Try it for longer and you will start to notice the issues with LRM/ATM use.

Like massive counter measures: sure target locks for missiles can be made with ease but maintaining them? Holding a lock long enough to land a hit with ECM and radar deprivation everywhere?

Diffused damage output: you can't put the damage where it needs to be with LRMs.

Slow projectile speeds: You will not be winning any trades facing a direct fire build in an LRM-centric build.

And of course maps that are pretty much freebie defense for your enemy's enjoyment.

Mining collective,HPG,River city and Crimson Straight are highly congested with cover (or outright points of immunity to LRMs) making LRM (and moreso ATM) use challenging

Frozen City,Forest Colony,Canyon Network for example are fairly neutral possesing ample cover but also enough open space that I wouldn't call advantage to either defense or offense.

And finally we have three maps with advantage to LRMs. Alpine Peaks,Polar Highlands and Caustic Valley. On these three maps a defender actually needs to apply some thought to missile defense rather than count on ample map based advantage.

And let's see how often the disadvantaged maps are chosen over any other? I will play Caustic Valley maybe one in 25 matches (if that) but would have played HPG,Crimson straight and mining collective several times each.Polar highlands gets some use but still probably around one quarter as often as the congested (anti LRM) maps are chosen.

So I would estimate that LRM neutral and advantaged maps are about one third of the games I play.The remaining two thirds of the games are played on non advantageous maps like HPG,Mining Collective or River City.

So in addition to active defenses like AMS,Radar Derp and ECM we have prolific passive defense in the map rotations.

So it's not all that big of a problem for me how "easy" lock on missiles are.

[BEARDOOM]

I WILL STICK WITH OLD LOVE - BALLISTICS

[Angel of Annihilation]

First, ATMs are almost completely negated by AMS, in fact a single AMS can pretty much shut down a Dual ATM6 build all itself (take out 9-10 out of 12 missiles). If the enemy has a couple of AMS operating in an area your trying to fire in, that can even shut down ATM boat builds.

Second, ATMs require LOS for the most part and if you have LOS so does the enemy.

Third, ATMs require lock on. ECM will totally shut down your ability to use ATMs well I mean you can dumb fire them but with their slow speed, you seldom hit with them being dumbfired. Lock on also takes time which means your sitting there on in LOS of the enemy, waiting for a lock while they are actually firing at you.

Fourth, ATMs aren't really any more damaging than SRMs or LRMs overall. An ATM 6 is about the same weight as a LRM 15. At 120-270m, your doing 18 damage with an ATM6 which is only 3 more damage than would likely be doing with an LRM 15. At 270m to around 500m, your only doing 12 damage vs 15 damage for an LRM 15. At longer ranges the LRM 15 totaly dominates. Compared to an SRM 6 you can manage to mount 2 SRM6 + half ton of ammo for the same weight as a ATM 6. 2 SRM 6 does 24 damage out to 270m or roughly 6 more damage than the ATM 6 at that range. SRMs also fire faster, have a higher velocity, don't require lock and have no minimum range.

So looking at these numbers can you please tell me how ATMs are OP and game breaking cause from where I am standing, I think they are dire need of a buff.

[Khobai]

Quote

But don't we already have the boring missile version, called LRMs?

so fix LRMs too. but thats a different topic.

[Rovertoo]

Khobai, on 18 August 2017 - 01:17 PM, said:

The way ATMs were implemented into MWO is a travesty.

ATMs are meant to be a versatile, flexible weapon thats capable, but not great, in all range bands.

Theyre not supposed to be an inflexible niche 120m-270m weapon that slams things for broken amounts of damage.

That is not in the spirit of the weapon.


ATMs should have no min range, they should have 50% more health per missile to survive the tyranny of AMS, and they should have their damage changed to a flat amount of damage, say 2.0-2.2 damage per missile, instead of their damage stepping down from 3/2/1. No min range and more HP is a fair tradeoff for less damage at short range.

I could get behind this, basically make them long range guided MRMs. Not terribly good but still pretty useful

[Alexander of Macedon]

El Bandito, on 18 August 2017 - 12:31 PM, said:

1K spread damage is not impressive. Guided missiles in MWO is pretty lack luster. Far better to use direct fire weapon. ATMs especially are far too situational to be effective at all times.

Unless OP is trolling and my advice fell on deaf ears.

Normally I think you're pretty spot on, but for solo QP ATMs are actually quite good, even with AMS proliferation. Those 800-1000 damage games aren't difficult to hit, and they're usually also 4-5+ KMDD/Solo Kill matches with another 3-4+ assists. For whatever reason ATMs seem to have much better reliability than LRMs or Streaks, enough that a solid volley or two on a light with ATM24 will usually delete it.