14 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

what if SSRMs, had LBX levels of Crit Chance & Damage?

right now SSRMs are kinda in weapon Limbo,
much like MGs and Flamers used to be, they are ok for 1 Job,
but vastly inferior in all others and not worth having,

but what if you gave SSRMs(which currently have 0% Crit Chance)
the same Crit Change and Multiplyer as LBX line of weapons?

=Current LBX Crit Chance=
LBX Crit Damage(1Damage/Pellet)
1st Crit (14% Chance) (x2Damage)
2nd Crit (8% Chance) (x4Damage)
2nd Crit (3% Chance) (x6Damage)


=SSRM Crit Chance Concept=
SSRMS(2Damage/Missile) @LBX Crit Levels,
1st Crit (14% Chance) 4Damage/Missile,
2nd Crit (8% Chance) 8Damage/Missile,
2nd Crit (3% Chance) 12Damage/Missile,


Now as you cant aim at open(armor less) locations, this will keep it from being too powerful,
normally SSRMs will spread across a mech, each aiming for one of the 7 Target-able areas,
(their are 8 areas on a mech but as SSRMs cant target the head, theirs is 7 Target-abe)

i feel this would turn SSRMs into more Close Quarter Brawl Assist weapons,
much like more MGs or LBX, the catch being the greater chance to hit with them,
and as a Volley of SSRM6s is veyr much likely to hit all but 1 location,
hitting an open location is much more likely,

=(Poll)=

Thoughts, Comments, Concerns?
Thanks,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 17 August 2017 - 08:51 AM.

[Smites]

An interesting idea but, don't SSRMs already fill their niche brilliantly? If we were to buff them in any way I think cooldown might be the best method. Crit chance didn't save the LBX. Tightening the spread until it was near pinpoint did.

[Andi Nagasia]

Smites, on 17 August 2017 - 08:59 AM, said:

An interesting idea but, don't SSRMs already fill their niche brilliantly? If we were to buff them in any way I think cooldown might be the best method. Crit chance didn't save the LBX. Tightening the spread until it was near pinpoint did.

well you could decrease the LBX spread to 0 and it would still be a weaker AC,
now if you increased LBX damage to 1.5Damage per Pellet you'd seem them used more, much more,

[FupDup]

No. SSRMs don't need XML buffs. They need changes to their base mechanic, and will be incredibly difficult to balance until that is done.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

I guess that just sorta makes SSRMs really good against enemies who have finally been sandblasted enough to have open sections on their armor.

I'd rather SSRMs just track in the way that LRMs do so they focus a bit more on center of mass rather than hitting everywhere, but I guess that defeats the whole "ssrms were built to not waste damage, and would always hit their target" lore bit. Still, them being more accurate and better at attacking center of mass does fit with the whole "they're for ammo and heat conservation bit of lore"

I'd like SSRMs to function like LRMs when it comes to locking but only be able to fire once they lock on, this would give SSRMs and ASRMs a bit of a rivalry, as Streaks would only be able to fire after they get a lock, and therefore would be delayed on getting burst damage out in a battle with peeking or between cover while ASRMs would be more inaccurate in a normal battle assuming that people miss their shots from time to time.

[Andi Nagasia]

well i suppose if they were designed to always hit Torso(LT CT RT)
that would help them to be viable, but with the stipulation that not more than 2 missiles per Launcher can hit ant 1 location,
a an SSRM2 can hit (LTx2)(CTx2)(RTx2)(LT+CT)(LT+RT)(CT+RT)
a an SSRM4 can hit (LTx2+CTx2)(LTx2+RTx2)(CTx2+RTx2)(LT+CTx2+RT)
a an SSRM6 can hit (LTx2+CTx2+RTx2)

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 17 August 2017 - 09:24 AM.

[JediPanther]

Ssrms already function like lrm that must have lock on to fire. They like lrm do one thing really well in the given situation that you are in range and have lock on. So far the only use I've ever made of them is instant killing light mechs. Any other mech they really don't do much damage unless the mech is shot up already or you are boating ssrms on the A1, MDD, or other missile heavy mech.

A ssrm cyclops can pretty much insta-kill other mechs and mess up other assaults if they are not damaged. The only limitations are the short range, low(ish) ammo and need to lock on.

Edit: You really don't want them to aim for ct or you'd have the nerd rage of closed beta where streaks would only go for ct and ssrm A1 one-shotted everything even with just srm2s. They should spread across the mech like lbx if you really want to make them the missile version of lbx.

Edited by JediPanther, 17 August 2017 - 09:28 AM.

[Metus regem]

What if PGI actually fixed the weapons, rather than trying to over value critical hits and damage....

[Andi Nagasia]

JediPanther, on 17 August 2017 - 09:25 AM, said:

A ssrm cyclops can pretty much insta-kill other mechs and mess up other assaults if they are not damaged. The only limitations are the short range, low(ish) ammo and need to lock on.

um how?
SSRM4/6 gain GH after 3 Launchers(24/36 Spread Damage)

also in tests SSRMs usually dont send more than 2 missiles to any one component,
so at most even having 3SSRM6s your only ganna do 12damage to a single location, a location you cant choose,
also theirs the problem of dealing with ECM, or Stealth Armor, both of which can completely lock down SSRMs,
-
comparatively 3SSRM6 vs AC10,
3SSRM6....13.5Tons......36SpreadDamage....4SecCooldown........12Heat
AC10...........12Tons........10PPFLD................2.5SecCooldown.......3Heat
im sorry but unless im hunting lights, ill stick with the AC10,

[Willard Phule]

For what it's worth, the reason that mixing the two on a brawler is because the SRMs take out the armor and the LBX goes for crits at the same time. Without something to punch through first, all the LBX does is scour armor away.

[Lightfoot]

What I have been asking for is to return SSRMs to simulated missiles instead of arcade dice roll chance to hit. Last I checked SSRMs had a 14% chance to hit any section except the Head and a 16% chance to hit the center torso. Nothing you do changes that, although an intervening section will take some damage. So they are arcade missiles in a Mech-Sim.

Homing missiles track to the center mass of the target or the hottest part. Either way that's the center torso of a mech. The way you balance simulated SSRMs is you give them a wider turning radius. Thus the faster the mech, the easier it is to dodge SSRMs. This protects Lights well, Mediums okay, Heavies sort of, Assaults, not too well. Hitting with, or evading SSRMs becomes a fine skill to hone and this deepens gameplay significantly. Crit chance is something else, but this is where you want to start. Revert SSRMs back to sim missiles.

Edited by Lightfoot, 19 August 2017 - 02:34 PM.

[InfinityBall]

Lightfoot, on 19 August 2017 - 02:33 PM, said:

What I have been asking for is to return SSRMs to simulated missiles instead of arcade dice roll chance to hit. Last I checked SSRMs had a 14% chance to hit any section except the Head and a 16% chance to hit the center torso. Nothing you do changes that, although an intervening section will take some damage. So they are arcade missiles in a Mech-Sim.

Homing missiles track to the center mass of the target or the hottest part. Either way that's the center torso of a mech. The way you balance simulated SSRMs is you give them a wider turning radius. Thus the faster the mech, the easier it is to dodge SSRMs. This protects Lights well, Mediums okay, Heavies sort of, Assaults, not too well. Hitting with, or evading SSRMs becomes a fine skill to hone and this deepens gameplay significantly. Crit chance is something else, but this is where you want to start. Revert SSRMs back to sim missiles.

Ok, I haven't used SSRMs since I came back, but what I've read is that they're only good for killing lights. And your suggested change would make them terrible at that, so they'd be useless?

[Escef]

InfinityBall, on 19 August 2017 - 03:28 PM, said:

Ok, I haven't used SSRMs since I came back, but what I've read is that they're only good for killing lights. And your suggested change would make them terrible at that, so they'd be useless?

They aren't even particularly good at that. They're sandblasters, the only reason they work on lights at all is because there isn't much there to blast in the first place. Before skill tree, I had on two separate occasions blown a full spread of 36 Streaks into the face of a Locust and watched it tank it and run away. Post skill tree? Ha! Not only have I done it, the little bugger even had some front armor left. These tales of "insta-killing" lights are most likely against lights that have already suffered significant armor damage, and possibly even suffered structural damage from overheating or weapons fire... Or perhaps a lucky back-shot, or a lucky salvo from the side into an IS-XL light. I've seen too many lights tank significant numbers of Streaks to buy into the "insta-kill" myth.

Here's the reality: Streaks are hot and tonnage hungry weapon systems that aren't even good at the one thing people say they're good for. You want to kill lights? Use big damage pin-point weapons and train to properly lead fast movers with them. Twin Gauss, AC20, HPPC, etc. work. The big advantage to Streaks is that if you aren't good at tracking fast movers they are very forgiving of imprecise aim.

[QuantumButler]

What if SSRMs only locked onto the torso hitboxes and nothing else, hmmmmmmm.

[Fleeb the Mad]

SSRMs will generally always have to be sub-par on paper compared to direct fire/unguided weapons because they remove the need to aim. That hardwired damage inefficiency is the price they pay.

I suppose a better question would be why you think they need buffing. In higher tier play they're going to fall out of use, similar to LRMs, because those people will achieve better results aiming manually with standard SRMs. In lower tier play making them good enough to be competitive with direct-fire weapons makes them broken.

We've already been to the place where SSRMs tracked to a mech's CT. Does nobody remember the Streak Cat? It was unbalanced for its time, just like any mech would be where the pilot could still hit the CT despite jumping or twisting to where they weren't even pointed at their enemy.