15 replies to this topic

[Jun Watarase]

So after ECM got nerfed, what are the new stats? E.G. Without any skill nodes, what is the normal range at which you can be detected?

[The Lighthouse]

"You just don't bother with ECM" is the most effective stat.

Edited by The Lighthouse, 18 August 2017 - 03:26 AM.

[El Bandito]

You get detected around 500 ish meters without any skill nodes--assuming the other mech is not running sensor equipment and nodes. Each node reduces detection range by 150 ish meters, so with both nodes you will not be detected until you are 200 ish meters close to the enemy.

[HGAK47]

Enemy with worst possible sensors - You with worst possible level of ECM = He will lock you around 500 meters or so.

Enemy with worst possible sensors - You with best possible ECM - He wont lock you until about 200 meters.

Enemy with all the bells and whistles + max sensors - You with best possible ECM - They will lock you around 350-450 (450 if they have something like a Cyclopse with Bap and all of that)

TLDR - Dont even bother thinking about ECM unless you have both ECM nodes active.

P.S Very rough figures from a twitch stream with devs the other night, this exact question came up.

Edited by HGAK47, 18 August 2017 - 04:53 AM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

HGAK47, on 18 August 2017 - 04:51 AM, said:

Enemy with worst possible sensors - You with worst possible level of ECM = He will lock you around 500 meters or so.

Enemy with worst possible sensors - You with best possible ECM - He wont lock you until about 200 meters.

Enemy with all the bells and whistles + max sensors - You with best possible ECM - They will lock you around 350-450 (450 if they have something like a Cyclopse with Bap and all of that)

TLDR - Dont even bother thinking about ECM unless you have both ECM nodes active.

P.S Very rough figures from a twitch stream with devs the other night, this exact question came up.

Yeah if your running an ECM mech it is imperative to invest 13 points in sensors to get the ECM nodes. If not, you might as well just remove the ECM so you can use the Tonnage/Crit slot for something else.

[Jun Watarase]

So if someone has both ECM nodes, and you have a BAP or light active probe, at what range can you detect him?

I wouldnt say ECM is pointless without points in the skill tree, it still delays lock on times by a ton.

[Jun Watarase]

Anyone?

[Tarogato]

Who cares? It's so worthless without skill nodes that there's no point in remembering/figuring out what the exact ranges are. =P

[HGAK47]

Jun Watarase, on 18 August 2017 - 05:53 AM, said:

So if someone has both ECM nodes, and you have a BAP or light active probe, at what range can you detect him?

I wouldnt say ECM is pointless without points in the skill tree, it still delays lock on times by a ton.

I thought I had basically covered this above,

If the enemy has sensors tree and a BAP chances are he can lock you at about 300-400 meters. I cant give any more specific numbers as it is dependant on what skills are selected and also what mech this is on but thats a ballpark figure.

[Tarl Cabot]

Jun Watarase, on 19 August 2017 - 06:16 AM, said:

Anyone?

The Private Lobbies are free now. Get some friends and test it out, provided someone has an ECM mech...

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 19 August 2017 - 07:54 AM.

[Insanity09]

The trouble is, unless the recent town hall gave out the data, I've not found a definitive answer as to how the ECM numbers are calculated.
So, the number you are asking for could have a different value, depending on how it works.

ECM baseline
Base detection range is 800m.
Base ECM modification is 30%.
So, with no ECM skill nodes and the opponent with no sensor nodes or other buffs (BAP, etc.), the detection range is 560m.

Each ECM skill node is an additional 22.5%.
Both ECM nodes, no sensor buffs, detection range is 200m (total reduction of 75% from 800m).

Sensor baseline
The maximum sensor buff you can get out of skill tree is 35%. BAP (or cAP) gives you an additional 25%.
So, sensor skills give a detect range of 1080m.
BAP (cAP) give you a detect range of 1000m
Together?
If you simply add both of them together (60%), the maximum detection range vs. non-ECM mechs would be 1280m.
If you multiply the base range by one of the numbers and then multiply that number by the second (they are %, after all), you end up with a detection range of 1350m.

But how do those numbers get added together, and how do they interact with ECM? Here is where things get funky.
(all of these numbers are based on max ECM skill nodes and max sensor skill nodes, where appropriate)

Additive
If all the sensor range modifiers are added together (-75% ECM, + 35% sensor skill + 25% BAP: total of -15%), the detection range would be 680m.
Sensors vs. ECM, no BAP, gives a range of 480m.
BAP vs ECM, no sensors, 400m.

Multiplicative
If you apply the sensor bonuses, then multiply by the ECM factor, you get a detection range of 337.5m.
If you apply the ECM% first, then multiply by the sensor boosts, the detection range is 320m.
Sensor skills without BAP would give you a detect range of 270m.
BAP with no sensor skills vs ECM gives you a detect range of 250m.

Sorry for the complicated answer, but until we know what the equation looks like, that's the best we've got.

[Gristle Missile]

Tarogato, on 19 August 2017 - 07:46 AM, said:

Who cares? It's so worthless without skill nodes that there's no point in remembering/figuring out what the exact ranges are. =P

I care
Its good to know how far away you can be targeted while trying to earn the skill points for it.
Its not like the ECM skills come pre-unlocked

Edited by Gristle Missile, 19 August 2017 - 08:36 AM.

[Tarogato]

Gristle Missile, on 19 August 2017 - 08:35 AM, said:

I care
Its good to know how far away you can be targeted while trying to earn the skill points for it.
Its not like the ECM skills come pre-unlocked

Here's how you know:

- Remove ECM until you can afford to waste 13 points on sensor tree.
- Now you know that you can be detected at pretty much all ranges.
- Continue to not bother equipping ECM, ever. Never waste 13 points on the sensor tree.
- Save the 13 skill points to put into heat gen, cooldown, or extra range nodes.

[Trenchbird]

ECM's two best uses now, for the unskilled, is being the active component of stealth armor and ECM countering people who bothered to give good ECM skill points on their mech.

It might also buy you an extra second of not being detected on radar, doubles missile lock time provided your ECM isn't being countered or outright ignored (By BAP, TAG, or NARC), and IIRC also acts like Radar Derp.

[Jun Watarase]

Okay so if we do 800 meters base detection range + 25% from BAP, that gives you 1,000m range. Then we apply a -75% ECM reduction, so two ECM nodes + BAP with no sensor skill nodes should give you a range of 250m?

[Insanity09]

Jun Waterase, please read my post 4 above yours, I'm not going to type out all the math again.