19 replies to this topic

[Drache64]

Hey Guys,

Yesterday was my first day playing. I really enjoyed this game and my brothers and I will be playing for a long time, I can tell.

Yesterday I LOVED the Ebon Jaguar starter mech, specifically the LRG Pulse lasers, and Gauss Cannon. I tried a few other from light to heavy and now I'm sitting on 20+mil and I am thinking it is time for me to buy my first mech. But I am super conservative and don't want to waste money.

I looked up sniper builds and someone recommended the Cataphract 1x with pulse lasers and gauss cannon with improved zoom. They said it it superior for hull peeking and such, but I'm afraid it may not hold up in a dog fight, that once the enemy closes in I'm doomed.

I liked how the ebon Jaguar could fire down range and I loved it's ability to then perform admirably in close quarters... I want to do all of that better.

My brother reccomeds the Tom Cat with pulse lasers, gaus cannon, a jump of 35m for mobility and positioning, and top speed of 81kmph, and then the ability to load with 4 missile pods to just be a walking turret (his preffered play style).

What are you opinons? The Tom Cat idea seems cool but it's sooooo expensive and would have to blow 3/4 my money on 1 mech, the Cataphract only costs 5mil...

[The Basilisk]

Don't be decived the Cataphract is an Inner Sphere mech and needs extensive investment to get on same level as Clan mechs like the Ebonjag you piloted. Actually I think it will be much more expensive to buy and outfit an Cataphract than to buy an ebonjag and some omnipods.

Also the ebonjag is one of the best heavy mechs out there even if a bit squishy.

What is a Tomcat .... there is no such mech in Battletech/MWO... do you mean the Shadowcat by chance ?
Or maybe a MadCat/Timberwolf ?

Edit: Also I do think somebody suggesting a Cataphract to a newby is effin insane or simply a troll.
The Cataphract has the worst hardpoints of the heavy class even if it got abuffed a bit recently due to its intense armor quirks, no amount of quirkening can make up for its hillariously large profile, low hardpoints and bad dmg distribution abilitys.

Edited by The Basilisk, 20 August 2017 - 08:51 AM.

[zudukai]

the huntsman (50tons) can do those things, try 5xERM and a Gauss, since it's a lighter mech it can't run the big ballistic and heavier lasers but it does have much better mobility stats and is cheaper for exactly the same playstyle.

IMO avoid the cataphract (75tons), both the grasshopper with jump jets (70tons) and warhammer (75tons) without jump jets are leagues ahead of the very wide and flawed 'phract.

i think you are talking about the "Mad Cat" in your OP, in game it's referred to as the "timber wolf" in MWO and it's been a clan staple for a long time but recently fell out of favor when PGI re-balanced the mobility stats, so in order to make the timber effective again, you need to spec (skill tree) into torso yaw speed and some other mobility stats as it's in a very bad place with OMNI-pods that give you negative effects. (see "Clan Technology")

[Drache64]

EDIT:
NOT A TOM CAT, A TIMBER WOLF.

(Sorry, my noob was showing)

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Implying the gauss tbr (timberwolf) either with 2 large pulse or 2 er ppc or 5-7 medium laser builds. All very capable but they don't brawl (dogfight) very well.

I would recommend you focus on one role instead of 2. brawling and sniping don't go well together.

That said, timberwolf is worth every c-bill and Inner Sphere 'mechs need to be upgraded and will be as "expensive" as a clan omni'mech (like a timberwolf) in the end.

[Alex Morgaine]

The 70 ton cataphract is more of a brawler Mech, though the models with side torso energy could fit ppcs and LL to shoulder snipe, but aside from the 3D for jump jets it really doesn't peek-n-poke. It is a high skill Mech due to a wide torso but it can be durable in smaller skirmishes, and from experience it's Tammytanky enough to make xl work unless you get focused, but same could be said of any sub 97kph Mech.
The 70 ton warhammer is also a great model, with options for mid mount torso ballistics and lasers, with limited missile support.

Edited by Alex Morgaine, 20 August 2017 - 12:03 PM.

[Koniving]

Welcome to MWO.

The Basilisk, on 20 August 2017 - 08:49 AM, said:

Don't be decived the Cataphract is an Inner Sphere mech and needs extensive investment to get on same level as Clan mechs like the Ebonjag you piloted. Actually I think it will be much more expensive to buy and outfit an Cataphract than to buy an ebonjag and some omnipods.

Ultimately, the "investment" spent is within about 1 million to 2 million cbills above or below the money you'd spend on a similar clan mech, provided you expect to have to completely change the loadout from what it comes with. How much you save can be a lot more if not much is needed to change.

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Drache64, on 20 August 2017 - 08:37 AM, said:

My brother reccomeds the Tom Cat with pulse lasers, gaus cannon, a jump of 35m for mobility and positioning, and top speed of 81kmph, and then the ability to load with 4 missile pods to just be a walking turret (his preffered play style).

What are you opinons? The Tom Cat idea seems cool but it's sooooo expensive and would have to blow 3/4 my money on 1 mech, the Cataphract only costs 5mil...

What the **** is the Tom Cat? Mad Cat / Timber Wolf 75 tonner? Mad Cat Mark II 90 tonner? Nova Cat (not out yet)? Shadow Cat (45 ton super fast coffin)?
(Ah, Timber Wolf; see end of this post.)

This said....
You could build that Cataphract at about just shy of 2 million less than the Ebon Jaguar.
However, the arms and torso ballistic are low-slung which makes the sniper role pretty much obsolete from your options as a Cataphract. You won't be peeking and shooting with a Cataphract. Thankfully they can take some abuse. However their body type is not as forgiving for abuse as an Ebon Jaguar can be, even if you do have less surface area to be shot.

I recommend that you take this link and then select the base Ebon Jaguar you would like to experiment with and build your concept. Look at the price.
And in a separate window open the link again, take the 5 million cbill Cataphract you were looking at and do the same.
Remember you can change the body parts on the Omnimech Ebon Jaguar (also known as a Cauldron Born). You can do things like change engines, heatsink type, and structure type with the Cataphract. If you go with the 0X Cataphract and can work with it, you can also equip ECM and stealth armor to help make you difficult to detect.

Perhaps that can help?

-------

The Timber Wolf is 10 tons bigger than the Ebon Jaguar. The amount of ability it has to carry things and its speed is about the same, mainly due to the additional weight of its larger engine to keep that speed and the amount of heatsinks thrown in (also, the higher amount of armor). This said, it is also bigger and people like shooting bigger things.

In all 3 cases, the mechs you have mentioned are quite capable of close range combat. The Cataphract, being IS, specializes in being able to shoot somewhat faster and hit harder. It also has heftier armor or structure (due to quirks; pay attention to that because some have it and some don't hover the mouse and Read what you see when in the store. Very important.).

In comparison, the Clan weapons by default generally have longer range. Clan energy weapons do more damage but require more time to do that damage. Clan weapons are generally lighter but more fragile. Though ammo explosions still happen, Clans do not have to worry about explosive chain reactions going through their mech; the IS does though equipping a "CASE" can prevent it from getting to your core.
(Note "CASE" is useless in MWO with an XL engine even if XL engines have it there by default; that's a lore thing... it helps to save 3/4ths of the engine since it is worth more than the 'Mech usually and without it, there'd be nothing to salvage. Also meaningless in MWO since there's no repair and rearm. It is useless because losing that side torso still automatically kills you; opt for a Light Fusion Engine instead to survive like Clanners).

Clan weapons are also much hotter, meaning you'll be hard pressed to shoot them as often as the IS can.

Follow up note:
The Ebon Jaguar's armor might not be as high as the Cataphract, but despite the quirks it has the potential to take more abuse because...

• The Ebon Jaguar has large side torsos (this is normally bad, but in chicken walkers of this body type, due to the mechanics in MWO for damage transfer, once a side torso is lost that side torso reduces all incoming damage that hits it by 60% before transferring to the remaining 40% to the center torso. 20 damage becomes 8. 40 damage becomes 16. Etc. (Damage is ONLY reduced if it hits the destroyed torso section, the remnant of the shoulder section, or a 'destroyed' leg).
  
• The Timber Wolf sort of shares this trait, though its large nose cone fuselage somewhat defeats this by giving a wide forward CT to shoot at. (Technically the Ebon Jaguar also has a large CT fuselage but for some reason people don't aim for it as much).
  
• The damage transfer tidbit is shared by all mechs. However humanoid mechs do not benefit as well from it since side torsos (from the side) are somewhat slim and usually the CT sticks out enough to not care.
  
• It is this reason that the Ebon Jaguar fares so much better than its other 65 ton counterpart, the Hellbringer.
  
• As a bit of irony, the Catapult does not benefit so well from this despite being an IS chicken walker of the right body type; the CT is too broad. But the humanoid mech Thunderbolt benefits tremendously from it.

Edited by Koniving, 20 August 2017 - 10:22 AM.

[The Basilisk]

Yea a Warhammer can be a good alround heavy with ACs, laser and ppcs, a Marauder is still a good, sturdy mech, Hellbringer for a stealthy Clan Laser Mech (there are other working builds though)

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

I'd recommend buying an Ebon Jaguar. You've piloted the mech and know you like it, so you might as well buy your own, customize it to your liking, then boost it up even higher with the skill tree.

Ebon Jaguar is an Omnimech, it has a high initial cost to buy, but its very customizable through the use of omnipods that you can buy for a cheap price to get different hardpoints in locations for new weapon types.

The mech can do things from gauss+lasers, to massive laser boating, to full ballistic builds, to ballistic+laser mixes, to missile boating, all while moving quickly with high hardpoints. It's generally a great mech. There are some other specialized mechs out there, but I'd really only recommend getting them after you've played a long time and know exactly what you want.

[Drache64]

You are all legends! Thanks for the info! I've read everyone's replies multiple times and though hard...

I am going to buy the Timer Wolf (forget the model exactly) due to some things people have said and the model I found (tbw-s???) Comes with 81kph, 35m jump distance, 2 missile pods, and large pulse. So that way I'll have to spec it less than I would other models (just buy another large pulse and 2 Gauss) and the mech seems to be well rounded enough to totally recustimize if I feel different in a week from now.

Also, SO SORRY about calling it a tom cat. I was thinking old school mad cat, then thought "no, it started with a "T" (timber wolf), must have been called a Tom Cat!" -my brain does fantastic things.

[Koniving]

Drache64, on 20 August 2017 - 01:11 PM, said:

You are all legends! Thanks for the info! I've read everyone's replies multiple times and though hard...

I am going to buy the Timer Wolf (forget the model exactly) due to some things people have said and the model I found (tbw-s???) Comes with 81kph, 35m jump distance, 2 missile pods, and large pulse. So that way I'll have to spec it less than I would other models (just buy another large pulse and 2 Gauss) and the mech seems to be well rounded enough to totally recustimize if I feel different in a week from now.

Also, SO SORRY about calling it a tom cat. I was thinking old school mad cat, then thought "no, it started with a "T" (timber wolf), must have been called a Tom Cat!" -my brain does fantastic things.

It's okay.

That link I provided, you can use it to look at the different Timber Wolf models. (Technically they're called configs in Battletech because there are no different models or variants, just different configurations... but MWO calls them variants anyway). What's most important is the Center Torso, as there are different ones with different traits. The S has a jumpjet in the CT (which you can't remove, and it can't be added to any other config because of something PGI decided on). The Prime I believe has a ballistic slot in the CT. There's another that has an energy slot in the CT. And those that don't have anything special in the CT usually have a minor quirk like armor or structure in its place. Usually.

For the ones with a quirk instead, use the link's Battlemechs section to check on quirks; it can also let you make a quicker comparison of the Timber Wolf's hardpoints (that come with each config; remember you can change ALL hardpoints EXCEPT for whatever is in the Center Torso).

[Leone]

Which also means in the smurfy mech builder linked, you can playaround with adding on other hardpoints to set up a more preferential hardpoint list for your preferred weapons load out. Good fun, tonnes of customization available. Enjoy, an let us know if'n you've any other questions.

~Leone.

[Steel Raven]

Hellbringer works well for me, have a dual UAC 5 4X ER Med and a 2X ER PPC 3X ER Med build that work great at range and in brawls.

I would suggest the Warhammer or Marauder for a IS heavy over the Cataphract unless ECM is a deal breaker. Cataphract's ballistic mounts are low and you hit dirt.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

Remember you can chance other than CT pods of omnimechs so many Clan mechs offer quite a lot of different loadouts to experiment and practice with, at the price of one expensive mech. The pods themselves costs not much.

The omnimechs are mostly good value.

[Rogue Jedi]

just an FYI incase you did not know, the Clan Timber Wolf is the Mad Cat, lore for this is that in the first recorded encounter a targeting computer was confused about weather it was a Marauder or a Catapult so kept switching between MAD ^{(the designation for the Marauder)} and CAT (a non standard designation for the Catapult)
many Clan Mechs sent against the IS early during the invasion had alternate names in the IS because they had never been seen before and the IS did not know what to call them;
Summoner became Thor because it braught thunder (an LBX AC10) Lightning (an ERPPC) and rain (an LRM)
Helbringer became Loki because it weilded crazy weapon combinations worthy of a trickster
Mad Dog becams Vulture because it kind of looks like one.

if you are buying the Timber Wolf bear in mind that is an Omnimech, its engine, heatsinks and some other equipment are locked to certain Omnipods, but you can but the Omnipods from another varient to change weapon hardpoints, e.g. the side torsos on the S have locked Jumpjets, but no other varient/config of the TBR does, so put on a diferant side and you gain an extra 2 tons because you loose the jets and you can spend those 2 tons on other weapons because you would probably have also changed weapon hardpoints

when you buy the TBR-S it will have this loadout, but you can easily completely change the loadout with a few diferant pods, for example if you want to overheat and explode on your second shot you can bring something like this
if you want a competant close in brawler something like this
the Timber is not the best Mech for mid to long range fire support ^{(sniping does not realy happen in MWO because there is no practicle one hit kill long range weapons combo)} because most of its hardpoints are rather low on the chassis, and usualy a fire support Mech wants to expose as little of the Mech as possible, the Timber must expose at least half the Mech to fire the majority of its weapons
.
the Ebon Jaguar, Jagermech, Rifleman and some others make much better long range fire support Mechs because they have high hardpoints and can have significantly more tons for weapons.
the Ebon is 10 tons lighter than the Timber but with max armor and the same speed it has more free tonage, because as a Mech gets heavier it requires a significantly higner rated (and therefore heavier) engine for the same speed and Omnimechs cannot chose their engines

[Alexander of Macedon]

Absolutely would not recommend a Cataphract to a newbie. I love them, but you really need to have a lot of stuff down pat or you'll get torn up over and over, even with the defensive quirks.

That, and either you found a troll or an absolutely ancient post. The CTF's hardpoints are in no sense good for peeking of any sort, it's a brawler because the hardpoints are complete **** apart from the shoulder energy mounts. It's gotta be one or the other, too, because the CTF-1X is one of the useless trash variants that's strictly inferior to others.

[InspectorG]

Ebon Jaguar, Timber Wolf, Warhammer, or even a Marauder/Mad llC.

All solid mechs.

Clan mechs are more expensive but 'cheaper' to upgrade.

If you buy an IS mech, you may need to drop 1.5Million cbills for double heat sinks, and anywhere from 3-5 million for a new engine, and any new guns you need.

Clan Omnimechs have fixed engines, fixed upgrades, and the only cost is new gun and omnipods(which for a heavy are im guessing 200-300k per pod.

I am biased towards Ebon Jag.

[AzureRathalos]

As everyone else has already said: Always make a plan for your build before buying components. It will save you millions of C-Bills in the long run. Sometimes, all you have to do is find someone else's build and slightly adjust it to fit your playstyle.

Also, take a good look at the weapon hardpoints before making your purchase.

For a Battlemech (there won't be an omnipod option in the Mechlab), you are stuck with whatever weapon slots are on it. However, you have the option to change out more internal components that would normally be locked to body parts, most importantly, the Engine, Structure, and Armor.

For an Omnimech, you can switch out body parts EXCEPT the center. It may cost more, but sometimes it's better to get a different base mech, then buy replacement torso/arm parts just so you get the weapon slots you want. For example, the Timber Wolf Prime has a Ballistic slot in the torso, while the A has an Energy slot, and the S has a Jump Jet.

Finally, never hesitate to ask. There's always people around willing to help.

Drache64, on 20 August 2017 - 01:11 PM, said:

Also, SO SORRY about calling it a tom cat. I was thinking old school mad cat, then thought "no, it started with a "T" (timber wolf), must have been called a Tom Cat!" -my brain does fantastic things.

You ended up half way between the two names for the mech.

The Clan name has always been the Timber Wolf and it was designed, of course, by Clan Wolf.

When the Clans began invading, the Inner Sphere had no idea what these mechs were. The layouts were nothing like any of their standardized production models. Since the Timber Wolf had arm mounts similar to a Marauder (Model code: MAD) and shoulder missile pods similar to a Catapult (Model code: CAT), they ended up calling it a Mad Cat.

Now, to confuse things even more, the Mad Cat MkII is newer design that appeared later in the wars, based off the Timber Wolf. It probably should be called Timber Wolf MkII, but because it's designed by Clan Diamond Shark and not Clan Wolf, the wolf in the name was left out.

Edited by AzureRathalos, 24 August 2017 - 01:00 AM.

[Audacious Aubergine]

Consider a Linebacker with ER large lasers. Yes they can't carry very many weapons but they are quite fast and agile, which I'd say this would be more new-player friendly since it teaches you to control a faster mech, making the transition to faster mediums and light mechs easier

Edited by Audacious Aubergine, 24 August 2017 - 01:44 AM.

[Mechwarrior4670152]

AzureRathalos, on 24 August 2017 - 12:41 AM, said:

When the Clans began invading, the Inner Sphere had no idea what these mechs were. The layouts were nothing like any of their standardized production models. Since the Timber Wolf had arm mounts similar to a Marauder (Model code: MAD) and shoulder missile pods similar to a Catapult (Model code: CAT), they ended up calling it a Mad Cat.

Close.
Catapult is model CPLT, several of my books have pilots refer to it as a Cat in spite of that.

Part of the reason the Mad Cat II is called that is because it was (at least partially) marketed toward the IS factions.
(Diamond Shark being a little... different from their fellow clans )