47 replies to this topic

[MadRover]

redacted

Edited by MadRover, 25 August 2017 - 02:13 PM.

[lEAKYcUBe]

MustrumRidcully, on 24 August 2017 - 11:08 PM, said:

I am looking forward to the return of 8v8.

12v12 was a big adaption...now back to 8v8 will be a big adaption for them non competitive folks and us normal folk....but its all good, kinda..

[MadRover]

Smites, on 25 August 2017 - 01:58 PM, said:

Yeah, I think the problem is we're assuming one-sided teams which will happen in 8v8 and 12v12. Ideally, with 8v8, that will help the matchmaker sort better players in with eachother more regularly than 12v12 can given the current sample size. There will still be 12-1 but it'll hopefully lead to more balanced teams and thus balanced matches.

This is true as well. However, 12v12 tends to be more forgiving to those that are new and don't know any better or helps cushion all the competent pilots that have to pull more weight than normal (which is becoming more common). So unless the tier system takes overall efficiency into account (W-L, KDR, average damage per game), I am going to say no to 8v8. I already did enough hard carries in 12v12, I don't want to deal with that kind of nightmare even more often in 8v8. Not until the tier system gets fixed (and actually fixed PGI no band aid fixes).

[Pxranger]

Still trying to wrap my heads around how people think 8x8 is going to "Improve" the matchmaker. when you are still using the same system to select players, just fewer of them, its still the same quality of match!

go play scout mode in FP, that's 4x4, by this logic every game should be a perfect match.

[MadRover]

Pxranger, on 25 August 2017 - 02:31 PM, said:

Still trying to wrap my heads around how people think 8x8 is going to "Improve" the matchmaker. when you are still using the same system to select players, just fewer of them, its still the same quality of match!

go play scout mode in FP, that's 4x4, by this logic every game should be a perfect match.

Either they don't understand the matchmaker or they are living in a fantasy world. Either way downsizing teams is not the way to go.

[Smites]

Pxranger, on 25 August 2017 - 02:31 PM, said:

Still trying to wrap my heads around how people think 8x8 is going to "Improve" the matchmaker. when you are still using the same system to select players, just fewer of them, its still the same quality of match!

go play scout mode in FP, that's 4x4, by this logic every game should be a perfect match.

Few people play FP. Many play QP. The simplest explanation I can think of right now would be to take 12v12 as we have it right now and then 8 players from T1, T2 and T4 since you can go +/- 2 tiers. If the matchmaker has fewer players that it has to shove into a match then it can be more selective, thus the T1/T2 are playing with and against each-other and the T4 are cycled down with the other... less experienced players.

Edited by Smites, 25 August 2017 - 02:43 PM.

[Connor Davion]

Another thread about this.... OK I'll bite 12v12 please

[Pxranger]

Smites, on 25 August 2017 - 02:40 PM, said:

Few people play FP. Many play QP. The simplest explanation I can think of right now would be to take 12v12 as we have it right now and then 8 players from T1, T2 and T4 since you can go +/- 2 tiers. If the matchmaker has fewer players that it has to shove into a match then it can be more selective, thus the T1/T2 are playing with and against each-other and the T4 are cycled down with the other... less experienced players.

And here lies the problem. Tier is no reflection of actual skill. If by experience you mean someone that has played enough games to increase the tier they are in, that works, and it does weed out the people that are new to the game and prevent them from facing founders.

but it is meaningless in rating skill.

Edited by Pxranger, 25 August 2017 - 06:58 PM.

[XDevilsChariotX]

I'm going to run a lurm assault throughout this whole 8v8 testing period.

[Alcom Isst]

Smites, on 25 August 2017 - 10:39 AM, said:

Doesn't 1 elite gamer also have a bigger impact, potentially negating the 1 potato? We're looking strictly at the negative aspect and not the positive (or another negative, depending on how you might view the matter.)

Yes, but the matchmaker ideally should be compensating for skill, and not disconnects. A skilled player would be matched against equally skilled players, while a disconnect would throw a wrench into the system.

[Xetelian]

8v8 is not going to make things better, if anything it will make things worse for new players because they'll be expected to carry harder.

I see dozens of you want this change maybe even hundreds and the rest don't come to the forums.

[Alcom Isst]

Xetelian, on 25 August 2017 - 10:24 PM, said:

8v8 is not going to make things better, if anything it will make things worse for new players because they'll be expected to carry harder.

Between 12v12 and 8v8, the expected kills, damage, and performance of a player does not change. A new player is not expected to carry harder, they just have a higher impact on the game, but then so do new players on the opposing team so the difference is harmless and symmetrical.

It will be easier for new players as an 8v8 scenario is much less complicated than a 12v12 scenario, there's much less information that they need to handle.

That said, I believe there are two differences that 8v8 makes that dwarf every other concern.

• The software performance of quickplay will increase considerably. Yay!
  
• Players will have a larger personal impact on games. Yay!

So I want 8v8 Quickplay.

Edited by Alcom Isst, 25 August 2017 - 11:11 PM.

[poltergoost]

Alcom Isst, on 25 August 2017 - 11:11 PM, said:

• Players will have a larger personal impact on games. Yay!

DCs/AFKs will have a larger impact on games too. And I've just had 3 games in a row with DCs/AFKs on my team. Yay!

If that happens in 8v8, might as well DC/AFK yourself. Total waste of time.

[Stone Wall]

Reaver2145, on 24 August 2017 - 06:20 PM, said:

No thanks.

I don't like the idea of getting stomped because both the assaults decided to bring Lrms, or maybe there's a window licker or two. At least in 12v12 you have people to take in the slack.

Back in my day of MechWarrior 3, it was 4 on 4. Sometimes you were the only good pilot on your team and just had to carry. We had LRMs back then too.

[Smites]

Xetelian, on 25 August 2017 - 10:24 PM, said:

8v8 is not going to make things better, if anything it will make things worse for new players because they'll be expected to carry harder.

I see dozens of you want this change maybe even hundreds and the rest don't come to the forums.

While I can only speak from personal experience those of whom I've communicated with have expressed either an interest in 8v8s return, or didn't much care either way. Few appeared to be content with 12v12 except for the sake of not wanting change, and that's a poor reason not to do something.

We may also expect fewer disconnected in 8v8 because the servers, theoretically, wouldn't have a rather large bowel movement at the slightest provocation.

[Methanoid]

Stone Wall, on 26 August 2017 - 06:26 AM, said:

Back in my day of MechWarrior 3, it was 4 on 4. Sometimes you were the only good pilot on your team and just had to carry. We had LRMs back then too.

isnt that the days of slow dialup.

[KodiakGW]

Pxranger, on 25 August 2017 - 02:31 PM, said:

Still trying to wrap my heads around how people think 8x8 is going to imprive the matchmaker. when you are still using the same system to select players, just fewer of them, its still the same quality of match

go play scout mode in FP, that's 4x4, by this logic every game should be a perfect match.

You do realize that Scout Mode pits grouped players with/against solo players? There is no separation like in QP. Separation of grouped and solo players will stay the same if we move to 8v8. Cannot use that as an example.

Edit: Also forgot to add that no MM, even PSRXPBAR, is used in Scouting. It is first come, first served. So, doubly a poor comparison.

Edited by KodiakGW, 26 August 2017 - 09:12 AM.

[Stone Wall]

Methanoid, on 26 August 2017 - 07:33 AM, said:

isnt that the days of slow dialup.

any game back then was slow dialup, but the game works great on cable connections. barely any lag shooting needed

(I would know being the best MechWarrior 3 lasers player in the world)

[MadRover]

8v8 would work great for faction since it will help lower the ghost drops even further (and reduce lobby times) BUT making QP 8v8 will make little to no impact except make things even more difficult as you deal with pilots that are either new to the game, or don't know any better and will be bad until they eventually learn their lessons.

[Alcom Isst]

MadRover, on 26 August 2017 - 10:06 AM, said:

8v8 would work great for faction since it will help lower the ghost drops even further (and reduce lobby times) BUT making QP 8v8 will make little to no impact except make things even more difficult as you deal with pilots that are either new to the game, or don't know any better and will be bad until they eventually learn their lessons.

8v8 would increase the impact of individual new players but decrease the average number of them per-team, a trade-off that makes that issue pretty much near-negligible.

Edited by Alcom Isst, 26 August 2017 - 12:22 PM.