16 replies to this topic

[LMP]

When I hear Betty say, "Enemy Spotted" and see the little rectangle with a dot in the middle on my mini map does that mean he has a NARC attached to him?

[Koniving]

LMP, on 25 August 2017 - 04:47 AM, said:

When I hear Betty say, "Enemy Spotted" and see the little rectangle with a dot in the middle on my mini map does that mean he has a NARC attached to him?

No.

I don't remember exactly what that means, but NARC produces this effect.

.)))
But going up rather than right.

Basically the wiifi hotspot signal.

[Trissila]

No. That is somebody spotting an enemy target with the commo rose.

By default, press and hold E. This brings up the commo rose with a couple of options, one of which is "Enemy Spotted". If you use this while aiming at an enemy, it will call their position out in chat and mark them with a little square on the minimap and in the HUD to highlight them for allies.

NARC tagged enemies will have the broadcast signal (as mentioned in the post above, but vertical) on the top left part of the targeting box when you target them.

[LMP]

Trissila, on 25 August 2017 - 05:40 AM, said:

No. That is somebody spotting an enemy target with the commo rose.

By default, press and hold E. This brings up the commo rose with a couple of options, one of which is "Enemy Spotted". If you use this while aiming at an enemy, it will call their position out in chat and mark them with a little square on the minimap and in the HUD to highlight them for allies.

NARC tagged enemies will have the broadcast signal (as mentioned in the post above, but vertical) on the top left part of the targeting box when you target them.

Do I need to have the target locked to spot a target?

Is there a maximum range beyond which spotting targets does not work? In other words, can I spot targets that are out of sensor range and don't have the little red square above them?

[Jingseng]

LMP, on 25 August 2017 - 06:15 AM, said:

Do I need to have the target locked to spot a target?

Is there a maximum range beyond which spotting targets does not work? In other words, can I spot targets that are out of sensor range and don't have the little red square above them?

It's a little ambiguous because you are not defining what you mean specifically when you say "spot targets"... fortunately, the answer in either case is "Yes" you must have the target locked.

Your second question is also confusing in ambiguity, but essentially because you must have lock, that is your max range.

[Barkem Squirrel]

You can see someone with your mark I eyeballs and hit them with some weapons beyond sensor range.

Now sensor detection I think it was set at 800 m before as a base. Not sure if that is the same now.
BAP or CAP adds range 25%
Targeting computers adds range depends on size
Skill tree selections adds range Use to be 25% and not sure now.
Command console (IS only) adds range 6% I think or 50 m
In or near a cyclops adds range. I thought it was 200 m for the mech and 150 m if you are a certain distance from it.

The old max for spoting someone with sensors was 1250, but now with the cyclops or if two work together and if the IS targeting computer also increases range. Over 1450 or so.

[LMP]

I went into Testing Grounds to try things out and noticed that I could indeed spot a Mech that I was not locked on to and that was beyond sensor range. I positioned myself so one Mech was within sensor range and the other was beyond sensor range with no red diamond above him. I locked on to the closest Mech then pointed at the Mech that was out of range pushed and held E and clicked on Enemy Spotted and he was tagged with that green rectangle with the dot in the middle on my mini map.

Is this something that works differently in a match then it does in the Testing Grounds?

[Tesunie]

LMP, on 25 August 2017 - 06:15 AM, said:

Do I need to have the target locked to spot a target?

Is there a maximum range beyond which spotting targets does not work? In other words, can I spot targets that are out of sensor range and don't have the little red square above them?

Target lock to spot, yes. However, you do not need to use the communication wheel (default E as someone stated previously) for it. Literally, you just need to be able to see a target, press R to lock it, and it's spotted and should be sending that target information to your allies. (Presuming things like ECM are not in effect, which is a more complicated subject.)


NARC and TAG help with spotting, but are not necessary at all to actually spot a target. Respectively, Narc on a target looks like a wave symbol and TAG on a target looks like a set of cross hairs.


You have to maintain a target lock on a spot, so if they are outside your sensor/targeting range than no. You can't effectively "spot" that target for your team. However, that doesn't mean someone else can't spot it and you get a lock on it that way (they are spotting for you). The only ways I can think of where you can "spot" without being within targeting range is if you NARCed the target or have a UAV above their heads detecting them instead.

LMP, on 25 August 2017 - 08:30 AM, said:

I went into Testing Grounds to try things out and noticed that I could indeed spot a Mech that I was not locked on to and that was beyond sensor range. I positioned myself so one Mech was within sensor range and the other was beyond sensor range with no red diamond above him. I locked on to the closest Mech then pointed at the Mech that was out of range pushed and held E and clicked on Enemy Spotted and he was tagged with that green rectangle with the dot in the middle on my mini map.

Is this something that works differently in a match then it does in the Testing Grounds?

That was not technically what many of us would refer to as "spotting". That was something to deal with the command/communication wheel (E button default). As far as I know, with the E wheel, you only need to be able to see the target, no matter the range. However, this doesn't help targeting or spotting the target, in relation to such aspects as indirect fired LRMs or data gathering for examples.

Many of us consider a "spotted target" to be one that is locked and information being shared with their team. A spotted target is one that an ally can get missile locks and support via LRMs if needed. The E Wheel is something I think many of us don't really think all that much about using. Though, it is handy to have around (when it isn't being spammed).

[Koniving]

LMP, on 25 August 2017 - 08:30 AM, said:

I went into Testing Grounds to try things out and noticed that I could indeed spot a Mech that I was not locked on to and that was beyond sensor range. I positioned myself so one Mech was within sensor range and the other was beyond sensor range with no red diamond above him. I locked on to the closest Mech then pointed at the Mech that was out of range pushed and held E and clicked on Enemy Spotted and he was tagged with that green rectangle with the dot in the middle on my mini map.

Is this something that works differently in a match then it does in the Testing Grounds?

Okay there's a breakdown in communications due to numerous definitions of the same words.

Let me clear it up.
Prior to the Comms Rose, to spot meant to hit R and in effect, put a red square on a target.
Now, to spot means to just use the comms rose and say "spotted enemy"

To press R and put a red square around the enemy is sometimes mistakenly stated as to lock, as it has been referred to as locking in this thread many times when in fact... that is just the act of "Targeting" an enemy.

To lock is to 1) Press R to put a red square or bracket [ ] around the enemy and 2) aim at the enemy until you hear a lock on confirmation with a fancy new crosshair, used with Streaks, LRMs and ATMs.

Now if we stop using the wrong terms.

No you do NOT need to TARGET OR TO TARGET AND LOCK an enemy to SPOT them.

You do NOT need to SPOT an enemy in order to TARGET or LOCK them.

You can spot at a nearly unlimited range.

You can only TARGET (on your own) at a default range of 800 meters (enhanceable through equipment, quirks, skill tree).

You CANNOT TARGET an enemy that has only been spotted by someone else. That someone else MUST be actively STARING at the target in order for you to be able to TARGET it. You can do this even if they HAVE NOT TARGETED the enemy that they are staring at.

You can TARGET someone within 800 meters (enhanceable on their end) of an ally that the ally is actively looking at... from an unlimited distance.

You can LOCK an enemy at ANY RANGE -- provided you can TARGET them.

This clear things up?

[Tesunie]

Koniving, on 25 August 2017 - 09:30 AM, said:

You CANNOT TARGET an enemy that has only been spotted by someone else. That someone else MUST be actively STARING at the target in order for you to be able to TARGET it. You can do this even if they HAVE NOT TARGETED the enemy that they are staring at.

I always referred to it as "Target lock" and "Missile Lock", but meh. The terms can be a bit confusing.


However, as for the part I left remaining, I have not known anyone to be able to share a target lock by looking at the target and not having it actually locked as a target themselves (by pressing R). As far as I know, unless something has changed and I wasn't aware of it, if you wish to share a lock (spot in the conventional sense for things such as indirect fire for example), than the spotter must have a target lock on the target. Otherwise their team is none the wiser as to what that spotter is seeing (with the exception of the comm wheel), and lock on weapons (such as LRMs) can't get a missile lock on their spot to shoot indirectly.

If it now works the other way, where you do not need a target lock to spot for other's potential missile locks, than that is honestly news to me and I've not yet seen it behave like that in game yet. (Though, maybe I wasn't paying attention.)


So... Comm Rose. Is that the communication/command wheel's official name now? I've never heard it referred to as such, but it would make sense. Honestly, I don't even know what it can do... seen as it never decided to default to E for me for some reason. (I should force that within my key bindings some time... if I can remember to do it.)

[LMP]

Koniving, on 25 August 2017 - 09:30 AM, said:

Okay there's a breakdown in communications due to numerous definitions of the same words.

Let me clear it up.
Prior to the Comms Rose, to spot meant to hit R and in effect, put a red square on a target.
Now, to spot means to just use the comms rose and say "spotted enemy"

To press R and put a red square around the enemy is sometimes mistakenly stated as to lock, as it has been referred to as locking in this thread many times when in fact... that is just the act of "Targeting" an enemy.

To lock is to 1) Press R to put a red square or bracket [ ] around the enemy and 2) aim at the enemy until you hear a lock on confirmation with a fancy new crosshair, used with Streaks, LRMs and ATMs.

Now if we stop using the wrong terms.

No you do NOT need to TARGET OR TO TARGET AND LOCK an enemy to SPOT them.

You do NOT need to SPOT an enemy in order to TARGET or LOCK them.

You can spot at a nearly unlimited range.

You can only TARGET (on your own) at a default range of 800 meters (enhanceable through equipment, quirks, skill tree).

You CANNOT TARGET an enemy that has only been spotted by someone else. That someone else MUST be actively STARING at the target in order for you to be able to TARGET it. You can do this even if they HAVE NOT TARGETED the enemy that they are staring at.

You can TARGET someone within 800 meters (enhanceable on their end) of an ally that the ally is actively looking at... from an unlimited distance.

You can LOCK an enemy at ANY RANGE -- provided you can TARGET them.

This clear things up?

I was strictly interested in the target spotted thing and the little green rectangle with the dot in the middle. I keep seeing it happen in PUGs and wondered how it worked. I’m good on everything else.

[Barkem Squirrel]

Spot an enemy it has an open red triangle. with one person.

With two people spoting that same mech the triangle fills in red.

Just one thing to look for when playing the in the rear LRM boat. Now if you like to play dangerously, get a meduim IS LRM boat, move 80 - 90 kph and fire from the front line using Artemis and TAG. 200 to 400 m range.

I have used the R so much that using the wheel is almost just another thing, but for LRM boats I normally get my own locks. Using the command wheel is almost non-existent for me..

[Koniving]

Tesunie, on 25 August 2017 - 10:03 AM, said:

So... Comm Rose. Is that the communication/command wheel's official name now? I've never heard it referred to as such, but it would make sense. Honestly, I don't even know what it can do... seen as it never decided to default to E for me for some reason. (I should force that within my key bindings some time... if I can remember to do it.)

It's the battlefield name (and interestingly, the Battlezone name), which are where I first encountered it.

LMP, on 25 August 2017 - 11:06 AM, said:

I was strictly interested in the target spotted thing and the little green rectangle with the dot in the middle. I keep seeing it happen in PUGs and wondered how it worked. I’m good on everything else.

Covered it on all angles for everyone. As some were saying you can't spot without targeting, etc., etc., etc.

[Koniving]

Barkem Squirrel, on 25 August 2017 - 12:13 PM, said:

Spot an enemy it has an open red triangle. with one person.

That is not spot.
That is "Detect."

Spotting is Pressing E and choosing "Enemy spotted." We need to get away from the old terminology as it conflicts with current terminology.

Quote

With two people spoting that same mech the triangle fills in red.

I believe that is what happens when the same mech is "Targeted" as opposed to simply "Detected." In the case of two people, that's the minimum for a 75% chance that someone was smart enough to target the enemy....otherwise it's a fifty-fifty because either the solo person did or did not target the enemy.

Quote

Just one thing to look for when playing the in the rear LRM boat. Now if you like to play dangerously, get a meduim IS LRM boat, move 80 - 90 kph and fire from the front line using Artemis and TAG. 200 to 400 m range.

The player has repeatedly mentioned the stress and joint pain of rapid, frequent movements while playing games. This would agitate said pains. This said, yes it is reasonably effective.

Quote

I have used the R so much that using the wheel is almost just another thing, but for LRM boats I normally get my own locks. Using the command wheel is almost non-existent for me..

Should try it sometime. "Spotted" enemies typically show for a length of time, regardless of whether the target is still visible or not. (Skill tree sensors seem to have some effect on this, as for some mechs that you spot enemies with, the time goes as long as 3 seconds [regardless of ECM or even stealth armor], yet for others against some targets it can stop instantly.)

[TooDumbToQuit]

I never use the "wheel" (OK, lately I'm been doing the target thing). I use a Mic and say I'm in trouble or spotted someone somewhere etc. How does the wheel help you tell your teammates that a locust with stealth armor just ran behind you in the Supernova? I think using the wheel is a bad habit. I sometimes see people yell help but I'm watching the game so I do not know where they are at or what is going on. (yes, I know it gives the grid, but if that grid is not on your mini map....)

If in trouble I say "I need help with a light in F5 please".

Honestly, that help thing pisses me off the way some people use it. When people are using it early in the game, even before the two sides meet I always say "hey, this guy must be Narced, help me shot it off of him!".

And you should always have a target or be looking for one.

[Tesunie]

Koniving, on 25 August 2017 - 01:10 PM, said:

That is not spot.
That is "Detect."

Spotting is Pressing E and choosing "Enemy spotted." We need to get away from the old terminology as it conflicts with current terminology.

I think one of the issues we are coming across here (and else where now), is that it's still called spotting in the rewards and as an action, and yet it's also called spotting when you use the wheel, and it's also spotting...

In the rewards section, if you have a target lock on someone and another person uses that lock to (for example) shoot LRMs at said target, it's still referred to as a spotting reward.

Yet, in the Comm Rose, it's also called spotting, with an in chat dialogue that even says "Target Spotted".

So... The term is thrown around a lot, and for similar but slightly different things that operate slightly different. For example, I can gain a spot award, without ever "spotting" a target with the Comm Rose. In reverse, I may not get a spot award even if I use the Comm Rose, because I never acquired a target lock on said target...

I can certainly understand the confusion between the uses of the terminology. Throw in us older school players who have been here a while and... well... It can certainly get even murkier...

[LMP]

LikeUntoGod, on 25 August 2017 - 05:40 PM, said:

I never use the "wheel" (OK, lately I'm been doing the target thing). I use a Mic and say I'm in trouble or spotted someone somewhere etc. How does the wheel help you tell your teammates that a locust with stealth armor just ran behind you in the Supernova? I think using the wheel is a bad habit. I sometimes see people yell help but I'm watching the game so I do not know where they are at or what is going on. (yes, I know it gives the grid, but if that grid is not on your mini map....)

If in trouble I say "I need help with a light in F5 please".

Honestly, that help thing pisses me off the way some people use it. When people are using it early in the game, even before the two sides meet I always say "hey, this guy must be Narced, help me shot it off of him!".

And you should always have a target or be looking for one.

Yeah, that wheel thing is poor design. There is no way I am going to stop whatever I'm doing just to use it. We should be able to perform all the functions it shows with a separate key press for each one.