33 replies to this topic

[Felio]

Holy balls, OK, some kind of balance sheet. I guess they deleted a bunch of my stuff and gave me other stuff. I guess I'm rich? I'm not reading all that.

Oh, they re-did the skill tree. Jesus, how many kinds of XP and skill points do I need? What the hell is all of this? Why can't I select any skills?

Oh, I see, I can only use 91, but it let me burn XP on 293 anyway.

There is a goddamned jump jet tree. Of course there is. Same top-notch standards for balance as always. Are the bonuses at least huge? No, of course not.

Christ, why are there so many? Why do I have to buy hill climb to get to heat quirks? Did they at least make hill climb more than a placebo? No, still the same as the module.

Stealth armor? What does that do? Oh, it doesn't say. At least they still aren't wasting time on things like informative tool tips. Does smurphy say? No? Update notes, let's see...

Oh, it couldn't possibly be that useless. Oh, yeah, actually I guess it could be. Actually it probably is. But come on, here's a discussion on it, there has to be something... Oh, it's bugged, too.

Clan center torsos have 8-piece quirks now. I wonder what the other variants have. Can I check in the store? No, they still don't say much of anything about what you are buying. Maybe in another year. They've been busy.

Incursion or escort? Nobody likes escort missions. Let's vote and see how bad it is. Whoa, it is really not popular.

[Jackofallpots]

Try out some of the new weapons

[Dimento Graven]

Felio, on 24 August 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

Holy balls, OK, some kind of balance sheet. I guess they deleted a bunch of my stuff and gave me other stuff. I guess I'm rich? I'm not reading all that.

Oh, they re-did the skill tree. Jesus, how many kinds of XP and skill points do I need? What the hell is all of this? Why can't I select any skills?

Oh, I see, I can only use 91, but it let me burn XP on 293 anyway.

There is a goddamned jump jet tree. Of course there is. Same top-notch standards for balance as always. Are the bonuses at least huge? No, of course not.

Christ, why are there so many? Why do I have to buy hill climb to get to heat quirks? Did they at least make hill climb more than a placebo? No, still the same as the module.

Stealth armor? What does that do? Oh, it doesn't say. At least they still aren't wasting time on things like informative tool tips. Does smurphy say? No? Update notes, let's see...

Oh, it couldn't possibly be that useless. Oh, yeah, actually I guess it could be. Actually it probably is. But come on, here's a discussion on it, there has to be something... Oh, it's bugged, too.

Clan center torsos have 8-piece quirks now. I wonder what the other variants have. Can I check in the store? No, they still don't say much of anything about what you are buying. Maybe in another year. They've been busy.

Incursion or escort? Nobody likes escort missions. Let's vote and see how bad it is. Whoa, it is really not popular.

LOL... Somewhat fresh eyes, tells us a lot on this.

Yeah some pop-up tool tips, more informative descriptions of items, an in-game 'Mech-opedia' to get PGI definitions (crimany, think of having also having the same level of detail for 'mechs found in the TRO's listed in a 'Mech-opedia', it'd be cool, might help the NPE a bit too, PLUS having that pop-up as splashes during the 'Waiting for match' cycle, be nice to have something 'mech related to read, maybe have a few less AFKs at the beginning of the match, too).

[Jay Leon Hart]

Help with the skill tree here

[Trenchbird]

Stealth armor is criminally potent in a surprising amount of cases, actually. A shocking amount of people tely upon the red triangle to differentiate friend from foe, and considering it gets rid of your radar signature...

Either way, this is why you need to keep up on things, man.

[El Bandito]

Catten Hart, on 24 August 2017 - 08:58 AM, said:

Stealth armor is criminally potent in a surprising amount of cases, actually. A shocking amount of people tely upon the red triangle to differentiate friend from foe, and considering it gets rid of your radar signature...

Either way, this is why you need to keep up on things, man.

What makes it extra hard for me is that stealth armor masks mechheat signature in heat vision mode.

[Dimento Graven]

El Bandito, on 24 August 2017 - 10:14 AM, said:

What makes it extra hard for me is that stealth armor masks mechheat signature in heat vision mode.

Hmm, that means stealth armored 'mechs should generate heat faster.

Do they?

[Y E O N N E]

Dimento Graven, on 24 August 2017 - 10:23 AM, said:

Hmm, that means stealth armored 'mechs should generate heat faster.

Do they?

Yes, because heatsinks don't dissipate heat while Stealth is active.

[M4NTiC0R3X]

I quit playing shortly after clan release, been thinking about reinstalling lately but am still too sour over money spent vs. balance. It's not like bad builds are really gimped, I'm a pilot who makes bad builds look good after all, it's that powerful builds are way too powerful. It has been and after lurking on the forums for awhile will always be an arms race. Oh well maybe someday I'll hop in for [Redacted] giggles.

Edited by RestosIII, 24 August 2017 - 03:42 PM.
Inappropriate language

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

Hmm, that means stealth armored 'mechs should generate heat faster.

Do they?

Definitely- or rather, they can't get rid of heat outside of environmental cooling. I killed a stealth-armored Griffin that way. Couldn't hit him, but I was spamming my launchers over his head at other targets. He had a laser AMS going and apparently had override on...

Griffin has killed Griffin.

...because nobody on our team had LOS, but he proceeded to melt from his own AMS cooking him while hiding behind cover.

Could have turned off LAMS or override, but nooooo. BOOM.

[Dimento Graven]

Yeonne Greene, on 24 August 2017 - 10:38 AM, said:

Yes, because heatsinks don't dissipate heat while Stealth is active.

Wanted to be sure, I hadn't noticed a heat issue with them, though admittedly I haven't played in stealth armor, nor have I observed all that many people using it.

Brain Cancer, on 24 August 2017 - 11:10 AM, said:

Definitely- or rather, they can't get rid of heat outside of environmental cooling. I killed a stealth-armored Griffin that way. Couldn't hit him, but I was spamming my launchers over his head at other targets. He had a laser AMS going and apparently had override on...

Griffin has killed Griffin.

...because nobody on our team had LOS, but he proceeded to melt from his own AMS cooking him while hiding behind cover.

Could have turned off LAMS or override, but nooooo. BOOM.

LOL, awesome!

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Brain Cancer, on 24 August 2017 - 11:10 AM, said:

Definitely- or rather, they can't get rid of heat outside of environmental cooling. I killed a stealth-armored Griffin that way. Couldn't hit him, but I was spamming my launchers over his head at other targets. He had a laser AMS going and apparently had override on...

Griffin has killed Griffin.

...because nobody on our team had LOS, but he proceeded to melt from his own AMS cooking him while hiding behind cover.

Could have turned off LAMS or override, but nooooo. BOOM.

Maybe he didn't know about AMS toggle. LAMS and stealth armor, talk about unoptimized mechs...

OP:
1. Skill tree seems hard and complex, but only at first. Laters it gets suprisingly easy to use and navigate.
2. You can check omnipod quirks in the mechlab, hovering over items in 'OMNIPODS' tab. You can access mechlab of mechs you don't own in the store, by clicking 'VIEW IN MECHLAB'

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 24 August 2017 - 11:25 AM.

[Marcomies]

I really like the skill tree. It gives a sense of constant progression to improving the mech and the added flexibility of the system is also nice. The old system of having to buy, equip and level several similar mechs just to gain the right to buy expensive upgrades at the end was so demotivating (together with a few other factors that have now largely been fixed) that I never really got into the game before despite trying it for several times since 2013.

[Dimento Graven]

Marcomies, on 24 August 2017 - 11:24 AM, said:

I really like the skill tree. It gives a sense of constant progression to improving the mech and the added flexibility of the system is also nice. The old system of having to buy, equip and level several similar mechs just to gain the right to buy expensive upgrades at the end was so demotivating (together with a few other factors that have now largely been fixed) that I never really got into the game before despite trying it for several times since 2013.

I'm not sure that I like it in its current form. I agree with the concept but 'fire walling' (is this the correct term?) certain key skills behind dozens of other skills that may not be necessary or wanted pisses me off greatly.

I should be allowed to invest in just speed tweak or seismic without having to buy every other goddamned skill between the very top of the tree and the bottom.

As it is, another thing that could be an improvement is to create "Skill Templates", so that we can more quickly implement templates on to 'mechs. Certain 'mechs either due to their class, or how you intend to implement them will use extremely similar templates (like most of the various King Crabs will have the same template if you're using a brawling build on all of them, or Catapults with missiles, etc. The trees between your variants will be nearly identical, create a template, apply template, save yourself 5 to 10 minutes of clicking around).

Anyway, one can dream.

The F'ers that are building this UI do NOT understand how to make a USER FRIENDLY UI. Those sons of ******* appear to actually be ANTAGONISTIC towards the user, rather than 'friendly'...

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Dimento Graven, on 24 August 2017 - 11:32 AM, said:

I'm not sure that I like it in its current form. I agree with the concept but 'fire walling' (is this the correct term?) certain key skills behind dozens of other skills that may not be necessary or wanted pisses me off greatly.

I should be allowed to invest in just speed tweak or seismic without having to buy every other goddamned skill between the very top of the tree and the bottom.

Funny thing MWO tree is very similar in the way it works to the generally praised Path of Exile skill tree. With the same mechanic of having to choose a path to best skills, only there there is one big (gigantic) tree, not several smaller ones, what makes it even more about buying tons of not that important nodes on the path to the desired ones. Funnily, never heard complaints about that there. Is it this community or the pvp environment making people so bitter about anything they don't totally endorse? Maybe both?

Alternative to current skill tree system would be either buing even more tons of nodes giving you a very small bonus of what you want, or having best nodes cost a few or even several skill points each. It would be practically the same in effect, except you wound't get any of those less desireable bonuses, and there would be less viable options for skill investment (like alternate paths and weighting target bonuses vs their cost vs additional, less desired bonuses that can be taken on the way.

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 24 August 2017 - 01:45 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

Prof RJ Gumby, on 24 August 2017 - 01:44 PM, said:

Funny thing MWO tree is very similar in the way it works to the generally praised Path of Exile skill tree. With the same mechanic of having to choose a path to best skills, only there there is one big (gigantic) tree, not several smaller ones, what makes it even more about buying tons of not that important nodes on the path to the desired ones. Funnily, never heard complaints about that there. Is it this community or the pvp environment making people so bitter about anything they don't totally endorse? Maybe both?

LOL, you're funny if you haven't seen the nearly constant pissing and moaning about the skill tree, you're either not paying attention, or not looking all that hard.

I can't log into the game for 5 minutes before someone goes off on a rant about it in global channel.

But, this sort of firewalling is stupid and unnecessary given the comparatively limited number of skills points you're allowed to spend (comparatively at this point because the key skills are SO FAR down the dang tree, add another 20 points to spend, 111 total skill points and this would be only slightly less painful).

As far as PoE's skill tree, and it's pathing, I disagree that all are "useless". There's not a one that doesn't have a very measurable and tangible effect my characters, however, in MWO on some builds I could give a rats butt about heat containment because the build is already heat neutral, but if I want some other benefit below those... Well, there I am getting something that absolutely has zero benefit.

Quote

Alternative to current skill tree system would be either buing even more tons of nodes giving you a very small bonus of what you want, or having best nodes cost a few or even several skill points each. It would be practically the same in effect, except you wound't get any of those less desireable bonuses, and there would be less viable options for skill investment (like alternate paths and weighting target bonuses vs their cost vs additional, less desired bonuses that can be taken on the way.

Wrong. They could remap each type to not an interconnected tree, but individual vines, AND, it would help if the links were bidirectional. As it is now even though two skills are connected, because the one above isn't liked from one above it, I can't link to it from below. That alone wastes like 5 skill points for many of my builds.

[Marcomies]

I really don't think the skills on the path to the desired skill nodes are wasted. AFAIK you can still get the same amount on "full" upgrades that you could in the old systems and the things in between are just extra. The tree adds a whole new layer of choices and customization as opposed to just picking the few useful effects for your build.

[Dimento Graven]

Marcomies, on 24 August 2017 - 02:02 PM, said:

I really don't think the skills on the path to the desired skill nodes are wasted. AFAIK you can still get the same amount on "full" upgrades that you could in the old systems and the things in between are just extra. The tree adds a whole new layer of choices and customization as opposed to just picking the few useful effects for your build.

No, you actually CAN'T get to where you were before they implemented the new skill tree.

At least, when I tried for about 4 hours straight on my KGC, I could never get full speed tweak, seismic, my full torso and arm speed and movement, heat full heat retention, and radar depravation.

It sucked balls.

Maybe on other 'mechs they can somehow manage it (I hadn't paid attention enough to tell if the trees varied from 'mech to 'mech), but not on my KGC.

[Kanil]

Dimento Graven, on 24 August 2017 - 02:16 PM, said:

At least, when I tried for about 4 hours straight on my KGC, I could never get full speed tweak, seismic, my full torso and arm speed and movement, heat full heat retention, and radar depravation.

You can absolutely get all these things maxed out in the new skill tree... (maybe? I'm not sure what you mean by "heat full heat retention", but I'll assume you mean the heat sinking and containment?)

I'm not sure what pre-skill tree had for weapon rate of fire, but that's the only thing you might not be able to currently get in addition to everything else you had.

[Dimento Graven]

Kanil, on 24 August 2017 - 02:46 PM, said:

You can absolutely get all these things maxed out in the new skill tree... (maybe? I'm not sure what you mean by "heat full heat retention", but I'll assume you mean the heat sinking and containment?)

I'm not sure what pre-skill tree had for weapon rate of fire, but that's the only thing you might not be able to currently get in addition to everything else you had.

Nope by the time I put everything else in place, I didn't have enough to get to the same level of speed tweak nor seismic.

Either it's somehow different for KGC, or, maybe since I've last edited my skills, the skill tree has been changed. But, until PGI added the LFE, I was running well below my pre-skill tree speed of 56.6, because I just could not get to it in 91 skill points.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 24 August 2017 - 02:53 PM.