62 replies to this topic

[Ruar]

I didn't get to play much after the tech update because I was moving. Got my PC up and running two weeks ago and so far the matches have been rather disappointing. I have been doing about the same in my old builds, but it's kind of stale so I decided to try out some new mechs and builds.

It feels like about 50% of the matches have so many air and artillery strikes that it's not worth playing. One match yesterday on Grim Plexus I saw about six strikes as fast as they could be dropped. I know people like to say "just move away from the smoke" but you can't do that when the smoke is not in your LOS. That match was probably the most I've seen in a small area in such a small amount of time, but it's not the only match where I noticed a significant use of strikes.

Yesterday I was also noticing just how much the new MG meta is taking over. Matches where four enemy mechs and three friendlies are running around shooting MGs, some more effectively than others. I know people talk about the range, but every match devolves into a brawl so if you are patient enough range is not an issue.

The game right now just feels very gimmicky. Strikes and MGs being the current FoTM because they are easy to abuse.

I really wish the balance changes would happen faster because I don't log on much anymore it seems. There's a problem when the times I do feel like playing and I end up logging off multiple nights in the week because the matches just aren't fun. Losing can still be fun if the team plays well, but I'm having a hard time remembering a single well fought loss recently. A few well fought wins, and a whole mountain of one sided steamrolls.

Is anyone else noticing the same things?

Edited by Ruar, 24 August 2017 - 03:45 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Ruar, on 24 August 2017 - 03:43 AM, said:

...
The game right now just feels very gimmicky.
...
Is anyone else noticing the same things?

Yes. That puts it nicely. Gimmicky.
From the silliness that allows me to get an extra 2-5 hundred points of damage with a couple pushes of a button to the latest MG Heroes; yes there are a lot of changes that feel more like gimmicks than actual weapons or features of play.

Is that bad though? Not sure. All the gimmicks are available to everyone, so if folks are still having fun...who cares? On the other hand that perception of fun is I suppose the real issue. Yeah, dropping down to 68% after what appear to be a single strike really sucks imho, but what is worse is getting actually killed by strikes before even getting to the battle (I have stopped playing assaults all together). Add that sort of thing to all the other changes: from super secret stealth mechs, and MG toting crotch huggers, to RAC boating dorks who can't hit crap but if you shut down boy can they make you pay, etc; and you get a very changed feel of game play than what we have been used to for the last several years.

Meh.

We will get used to the gimmicks or more likely PGI will nerf/change them to the point where they aren't that noticeable.

As to the MG toting crotch huggers...if you can't shoot em drop one of those gimmicky strikes just behind them and watch their arms fall off. Even if you kill your slow, oversized self, its worth it.

Edited by Bud Crue, 24 August 2017 - 05:25 AM.

[Splatkitty]

Um.... Yes. Yup. I agree. To the point I almost dred logging on. I was hoping that getting into Tier 3 would help a bit. I'm no "awesome" player, but I do fairly well most the time. Even in matches where I manage to score close to 1k damage, we still get rolled. This is either in QP or FP. FP has become a useless mode for me. I can't attest to if it is weapons balance clan vs IS or just better team organisation on the Clan side. Getting rolled in FP time after time after time is very dis-heartening. There was a hope and an appearance for a while that the new CW tech would help level the field, it did for a bit. Then back to getting rolled.

'nuff said.

[Gaden Phoenix]

MGs make lights more relevant again. Good and bad. I feel they are not that overpowered.

What I really dislikes is the ability to airstrike near continually for fun. They have to fix that, all that promotes is over use of airstrikes and nascaring.

Because you KNOW the enemy team will use airstrikes and thus you KNOW you have the nascar. The issue is that when PUGs nascar, they somehow forgot or lose the ability to see their minimap. I got matches in which the team nascars itself to death. Losing one mech after one mech and one mech as they go, starting with assaults AND STILL THEY NASCAR.

Is really stupid.

[El Bandito]

Ruar, on 24 August 2017 - 03:43 AM, said:

I didn't get to play much after the tech update because I was moving. Got my PC up and running two weeks ago and so far the matches have been rather disappointing. I have been doing about the same in my old builds, but it's kind of stale so I decided to try out some new mechs and builds.

It feels like about 50% of the matches have so many air and artillery strikes that it's not worth playing. One match yesterday on Grim Plexus I saw about six strikes as fast as they could be dropped. I know people like to say "just move away from the smoke" but you can't do that when the smoke is not in your LOS. That match was probably the most I've seen in a small area in such a small amount of time, but it's not the only match where I noticed a significant use of strikes.

Then vote for 8v8, when the time comes. 33% less strikes per match!

[Escef]

My problem is just ludicrously timid teams that have no desire to play like they want to win. I fail to understand why people even log into a game about shooting at other people and steadfastly refuse to shoot anyone.

[MadRover]

El Bandito, on 24 August 2017 - 06:34 AM, said:

Then vote for 8v8, when the time comes. 33% less strikes per match!

That's not solving the problem though. Band aid fixes are just as bad as nerfs.

I rarely see a lot of air strikes being used except in faction play where it's expected, however the availability of air strikes and artillery being as powerful as they are makes them being called the noob tubes of MWO. When you're playing against a team of nothing but strikes and artillery, you know you're playing against a team that can't shoot. Now if artillery and air strikes were made to cost more space bucks, or PGI decides to put a hard limit of airstrikes and artillery to one per mech, then everyone will have to learn how to shoot again.

Edited by MadRover, 24 August 2017 - 07:18 AM.

[Coolant]

I've also seen up to 6 strikes in a match - it is overkill. MG's have been in a bad place for such a long time that it's hard to speak against them being useful right now. I think boating them (5+) should incur some kind of penalty; not sure what kind since they have no heat and wouldn't make sense to add ghost heat...maybe a jam? I don't know, but I am enjoying them and don't boat, at least no more than 4. It's kinda cool to be able to add 2 or 3 to builds I previous couldn't because of mg range. With LMG's I can now do some damage all the time (always have a "bullet" in the chamber).

[El Bandito]

MadRover, on 24 August 2017 - 07:11 AM, said:

I rarely see a lot of air strikes being used except in faction play where it's expected, however the availability of air strikes and artillery being as powerful as they are makes them being called the noob tubes of MWO. When you're playing against a team of nothing but strikes and artillery, you know you're playing against a team that can't shoot.

Strikes are very common in QP, BTW. Also, your statement that strikes are spammed by people who can't shoot is completely fallacious. If anything, it is the veterans who spam tons of strikes.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

They removed strike spam once because it was too much, apparently they decided that it is acceptable now.

[Ruar]

El Bandito, on 24 August 2017 - 06:34 AM, said:

Then vote for 8v8, when the time comes. 33% less strikes per match!

They already said they are going to switch to 8v8 so people can try it out before they decide if it's going to stick. As much as I think 8v8 won't work I'm willing to give it a trial run.

However, cutting down the number of mechs on the field is not how you fix the problem of too many strikes. Going into the skill tree and removing the bonuses to strikes and restricting strikes to one per mech is how you fix the strike problem.

[El Bandito]

Ruar, on 24 August 2017 - 10:26 AM, said:

They already said they are going to switch to 8v8 so people can try it out before they decide if it's going to stick. As much as I think 8v8 won't work I'm willing to give it a trial run.

However, cutting down the number of mechs on the field is not how you fix the problem of too many strikes. Going into the skill tree and removing the bonuses to strikes and restricting strikes to one per mech is how you fix the strike problem.

Why not both? Even better.

[Alan Davion]

Ruar, on 24 August 2017 - 03:43 AM, said:

I really wish the balance changes would happen faster because I don't log on much anymore it seems.

There was once a time where PGI patched I think two or three times a month, and, if not for the fact that they're such a small studio, this really is the best way to balance this game, smaller, more frequent, iterative patches, rather than the once a month "grand sweeping changes" we've been getting for however long now.

The one major patch a month thing works for someone like Wargaming.net, who are big enough that quality control can be a real thing. They can afford to take their time, make sure everything works before putting a patch out.

PGI don't seem to understand that the once a month patches they've been putting out for however long are not beneficial to the games health as a whole. It literally feels like every month the game gets pulled in some completely new and unintended direction cause the changes are so sweeping.

This month this weapon gets buffed. The next month this weapon gets nerfed into the ground. The month after this skill gets changed.

Now, obviously buffs, nerfs and other changed are required for a game of this scope, similar to World of Tanks or Warships, but the major difference is, probably I'd say the players. In World of Warships there are enough players for Wargaming to gather all the relevant data on this or that weapon. The real key though is that, all the weapons in a specific class are more or less equal.

Yes there are differences, speed, penetration power, arc and probably a few other elements, but they all generally operate the same. This one gun might do something better than the next gun, but the next gun may also do something better than the previous gun.

For whatever reason, PGI have been incapable of getting that same level of performance in MWO.

Different but equal can work, but I feel like at this point they would have to completely start over from scratch in order to get that kind of weapon performance in MWO.

[Ruar]

To be fair to PGI, WoT has not figured out how to properly balance artillery and gold round the last I played. I check the forums every now and then to see if it's worth going back and I still see the same complaints about artillery. I left WoT because power creep resulted in armor no longer feeling like armor. When you can't effectively bounce shots through skill and it's just a matter of RNG, then the game loses a lot of it's appeal.

I would love to see twice monthly balance passes. They could make subtle changes to see if they are moving in the right direction or not. Then again, they've ignored LRM mechanics for years so even with small changes they probably will still leave a lot of broken weapons in the game.

[The Lobsters]

Iirc, in a recent NGNGTV stream, a dev mentioned that the increased air/arty strike ability is intended as a counter to deathballing, and there were no plans to nerf quantity.

Which seems legit, it's something RL armed forces have to consider. Don't bunch up and get let the enemy take everyone out in on hit.

[Ruar]

The Lobsters, on 24 August 2017 - 11:33 AM, said:

Iirc, in a recent NGNGTV stream, a dev mentioned that the increased air/arty strike ability is intended as a counter to deathballing, and there were no plans to nerf quantity.

Which seems legit, it's something RL armed forces have to consider. Don't bunch up and get let the enemy take everyone out in on hit.

If only it could be used when there were 4 or more mechs grouped together. I've been hit by two airstrikes when I was ahead of the entire group and no one else was around me.

That actually encourages me to deathball because if I'm on the fringe of the group I'm less likely to be singled out.

[Asym]

I agree that matches just don't seem "right?" If that is a good word? The new weapons, players not caring, no team work at all and an awful lot of confusion just puts a damper on gameplay.... Today, versus, several months ago just seems "muted or 'reserved"" There's no sense of hope.......... Earlier today, someone responded to a player trying to get the PUG team working as a team: "why should I? It really deosn't matter.... I'll get 65K in CBills for losing and it will take me 6 minutes less time if we lose...... I make money faster by losing and I have no hope of anything over 100K anyway........." I won 95K for the match winning; and you know, I'm worried that he's on to something....

Airstrikes and Artillery are just combat multipliers... I've coordinated a team drop with 10 available and then insured a "deathball" ceased to exist.... I bet the other team screamed all sorts of bad stuff.....but, since teams only know how to "deathball", "NASCAR", or whatever you want to call what they do, Indirect fire is a sure way to convince them otherwise........ After all, the forums keep telling us newer players that it's "all about teamwork" and "joining a team and getting GuD." Well, some of us are ex-military and IDF is the "King of the Battelfield" and sometimes, in MWO, well..............10 arty and airstrikes in 2 applications is game changing.....

But, back to topic, something seems "off" at the moment....

[Prof RJ Gumby]

El Bandito, on 24 August 2017 - 06:34 AM, said:

Then vote for 8v8, when the time comes. 33% less strikes per match!

You DO have to put that propaganda everywhere, do you?

---
About strikes, they should just give them an increasing cooldown after every strike, so they're still viable, but less spammable.
1st and 2 shot: 10 seconds cooldown (just as it is now)
then cooldowns would rise:
for 3rd shot: 12 seconds
for 4th shot: 14 seconds
etc. etc.

This way occasional strikes do not get nerfed at all, but spamming is, especially in FP.

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 24 August 2017 - 11:50 AM.

[El Bandito]

Prof RJ Gumby, on 24 August 2017 - 11:49 AM, said:

You DO have to put that propaganda everywhere, do you?

---
About strikes, they should just give them an increasing cooldown after every strike, so they're still viable, but less spammable.
1st and 2 shot: 10 seconds cooldown (just as it is now)
then cooldowns would rise:
for 3rd shot: 12 seconds
for 4th shot: 14 seconds
etc. etc.

This way occasional strikes do not get nerfed at all, but spamming is, especially in FP.

Why not both, for even better experience.

No matter what solution people come up for reducing strikes, the addition of 8v8 makes it that much better.

Edited by El Bandito, 24 August 2017 - 12:00 PM.

[Ruar]

El Bandito, on 24 August 2017 - 11:59 AM, said:

Why not both, for even better experience.

No matter what solution people come up for reducing strikes, the addition of 8v8 makes it that much better.

No, no it does not, but you can shut up about it because we are going to get 8v8 for a time anyway. Sheesh.


And the idea of increased timer isn't bad, but I would add 15sec after each strike. So 10, 25, 40, 65, etc. between strikes.