41 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Quote

For some reason pgi dislikes guass rifiles, despite having poor weight to dps potential they have kicked it in the ballz multiple times even sence I started playing..

poor weight to dps potential? huh? gauss completely violates one of the core principles of battletech: heat generation. the fact you dont need heatsinks gives gauss exceptional weight to dps potential if you consider the heat that an equivalent heavy PPC generates.

Edited by Khobai, 29 August 2017 - 08:51 AM.

[Curccu]

Natred, on 29 August 2017 - 08:44 AM, said:

For some reason pgi dislikes guass rifiles, despite having poor weight to dps potential they have kicked it in the ballz multiple times even sence I started playing..

Yeah pretty much because they are still one of the best or if not the best weapon in the game, specially combined with lazors and used to be with PPCs

[Dimento Graven]

Khobai, on 29 August 2017 - 08:50 AM, said:

poor weight to dps potential? huh? gauss completely violates one of the core principles of battletech: heat generation. the fact you dont need heatsinks gives gauss exceptional weight to dps potential if you consider the heat that an equivalent heavy PPC generates.

Curccu, on 29 August 2017 - 09:43 AM, said:

Yeah pretty much because they are still one of the best or if not the best weapon in the game, specially combined with lazors and used to be with PPCs

How often do either of you actually use gauss?

I'm trying to remember seeing you guys using 'em, but I can't -- not that I'm saying you don't, as many people as we all can play against, and all the random 'mech builds out there, it's not like anyone besides some sort of idiot savant would be able to remember it, BUT, as one who uses gauss EXTENSIVELY, I can tell you the term 'best' belies what's actually typically being brought out in ballistics capable 'mechs.

[Antares102]

If any weapon should be armor piercing it should be the LBX.
It certainly should NOT be one of the already best weapons in the game with one of the highest crit damage if it crits.

[Curccu]

Dimento Graven, on 29 August 2017 - 09:48 AM, said:

How often do either of you actually use gauss?

I'm trying to remember seeing you guys using 'em, but I can't -- not that I'm saying you don't, as many people as we all can play against, and all the random 'mech builds out there, it's not like anyone besides some sort of idiot savant would be able to remember it, BUT, as one who uses gauss EXTENSIVELY, I can tell you the term 'best' belies what's actually typically being brought out in ballistics capable 'mechs.

I have played them a lot in pub, CW and MRBC/Starleague

I would estimate 2-3 thousand games with a mech wielding gauss rifle, usually two.

Edited by Curccu, 29 August 2017 - 11:25 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Natred, on 29 August 2017 - 08:44 AM, said:

For some reason pgi dislikes guass rifiles, despite having poor weight to dps potential they have kicked it in the ballz multiple times even sence I started playing..

And yet, still the best Ballistic weapon

[Asym]

Dee Eight, on 29 August 2017 - 06:15 AM, said:

The problem is that armor in battletech is what in current real world terms, be considered a composite system much like the british developed chobham. Its seperate layers of steels, ceramics and other materials mixed all together to defeat different kinds of threats. Its not simple one thick layer of steel like virtually all tanks prior to the Soviet T-64 and the failed west german/american MBT-70 program were.

Also armor in Battletech is ablative in nature, not merely something as in the real world where anything that doesn't actually penetrate or damage it, essentially bounces off. There are numerous accounts from real world history of tank battles where certain tanks new to the theater of action took numerous hits which failed to actually penetrate the armor, though they certainly did damage that affected its ability to fight effectively.

Battletech the tabletop game had mechanics for handling critical hits because every hit location depended on a random result from a dice roll. Rolling snake-eyes or box cars for the to-hit location resulted in a critical hit. But they also had a crit system that functioned properly. This game does not. Crits to the actuators, sensors, life support, cockpit, engine (other than side torso loses with Light/XLs engines) or gyro mean nothing in this game.

So ultimately WHAT a projectile actually is, means SFA in this game... because there are no mechanics to properly handle specialized munitions anyway. If there was... then LB autocannons would have a proper ammo switch mode... and ATMs wouldn't need to have a damage curve dependant on range bands.

I do have a question, when were you where the test vehicles we stored? My friends and I had access to the 70/803's for 3 years and after that, they were "museumed"?? Just curious. What building were they stored in? Let's test player history because very, very few of us actually got to study the test beds.....

Again, just curious.

[Trenchbird]

Are... Are you serious?

No. Get out.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Dimento Graven, on 29 August 2017 - 09:48 AM, said:

BUT, as one who uses gauss EXTENSIVELY, I can tell you the term 'best' belies what's actually typically being brought out in ballistics capable 'mechs.

Except you are the person who uses Gauss BY THEMSELVES, which is wasteful because it means you have a bunch of heat dissipation you aren't using. Gauss vomit and Gauss/PPC builds though actually take advantage of the fact Gauss ignore heat by combining them with high heat weapons to bolster their sustained firepower while in some cases, boosting their alphas.

Sure, no one but you boats the crap out of them (though the Quad Gauss Kodiak did use to be a thing), but that was never efficient to begin with.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 29 August 2017 - 04:54 PM.

[Dee Eight]

Asym, on 29 August 2017 - 03:19 PM, said:

I do have a question, when were you where the test vehicles we stored? My friends and I had access to the 70/803's for 3 years and after that, they were "museumed"?? Just curious. What building were they stored in? Let's test player history because very, very few of us actually got to study the test beds.....

Again, just curious.

I have a question. What does where they were stored have to do with my comparing the armor of battlemechs to the composite armor type developed for the failed MBT-70 program ? The thing was a lemon. And it hasn't been a secret that it used spaced/composite armor for decades now.

Seriously... knowing where they were stored is like claiming to be a tank commander in WoT...

1:42... and I quote "what has that got to do with the price of fish?"

[Trenchbird]

Battletech armor is Ablative, by the way. In most fluff.

[Athom83]

Quote

In the BattleTech universe, armor is ablative in nature. This means that it is generally destroyed or blown off when hit, but in the process of doing so, it absorbs enormous energies, protecting the unit it is mounted on. While powerful blows will still rock a vehicle, there will be little, if any, internal damage as long as armor plating still remains. Armor-piercing rounds do exist for certain weapons, but they require a higher technology level and cost more.

Certain weapons being the (L)ACs. http://www.sarna.net.../Armor-Piercing Even though that "AP" still uses warheads instead of being a Kinetic Perpetrator.

[Clownwarlord]

Wil McCullough, on 29 August 2017 - 01:36 AM, said:

So essentially dual gauss mechs can 1hko you at the start of the match with a lucky hit through the ct?

No thanks.

Negative, for a CT it would have to be 3 crits to the engine to kill a mech, BUT one for a cockpit hit though.

[Lily from animove]

Curccu, on 29 August 2017 - 12:41 AM, said:

What kind of counter nerf do you propose to balance that feature?

5 damage

[Karl Streiger]

Lily from animove, on 30 August 2017 - 05:28 AM, said:

5 damage

2 dmg front 1dmg structure 2 dmg rear and two random rolls ...but what happen when you hit the left arm from 90°.....
LA LT CT RT RA - 10 random rolls - or when mounting on a locust.....

Edited by Karl Streiger, 30 August 2017 - 05:32 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Karl Streiger, on 30 August 2017 - 05:30 AM, said:

2 dmg front 1dmg structure 2 dmg rear and two random rolls ...but what happen when you hit the left arm from 90°.....

LA LT CT RT RA - 10 random rolls

generally it would nto be an uninterestign feature to have armor piercng wepaons which basically could penetrate any armor below 20 armor left dealing 5% of its damage to an internal per point fo armor below 20. the rets still gets absorbed by the armor. That would negate easy crits vs heavy and assaults as armor needs to be reduced before critting can happen. But creating such a weapon would need extreme fine balance and I dunno if lore even supports that. also, poor lights would probably die even faster than they already do.

[Cyrilis]

Although I am not too fond of the idea, this may bring the Light Gauss (and the light gauss ONLY!) on par

[Karl Streiger]

Lily from animove, on 30 August 2017 - 05:33 AM, said:

generally it would nto be an uninterestign feature to have armor piercng wepaons which basically could penetrate any armor below 20 armor left dealing 5%

...speaking off there is a similar rule in CBT TT .... BAR for one and I think for Aerospace combat also
when you shoot stuff with a PPC you better had BAR 10 or > 100 armor points in that location otherwise you could roll for critical damage.
this would be interesting because it would be a "sweet" buff for big guns (duno about laser) 4 LPPCs into a single location would still behave like 4 x 5dmg weapons instead of a single 20dmg point
when you add some "resistance" and through armor criticals you could add a complete new level of balance....

[MischiefSC]

Golden BB mechanics from tabletop.

I'll need a written apology from your mother for not raising you right before you can post again.

[InfinityBall]

Catten Hart, on 29 August 2017 - 06:49 PM, said:

Battletech armor is Ablative, by the way. In most fluff.

Then why am I not running faster when I'm shot down to structure? (not a serious question)