36 replies to this topic

[Bud Crue]

Karl Streiger, on 30 August 2017 - 04:26 AM, said:

8v8 doesn't change the fact that the concept is flawed to begin with.
...

Of course it doesn't.
My post is perhaps a bit snarky, but I honestly think that is how PGI is approaching the current situation. The MM's ability to function is compromised to the point of being useless due partially to it own weak functionality, but more so because of the population having reached a critical minimum. I mean, come on, we've been complaining about the MM for years, but its never been quite this bad. PGI's apparent solution is: 8v8.
Is that going to address the cores problems. No way in hell. Are they going to do it anyway? YES. because that cost them nothing and might buy them some time.

[KingCobra]

The MM is the same as it always has been OP lousy at matching players based on skill.

But now it(the MM) has far less players to try and match with which is even worse because it just throws together any tier players in a random fashion to make a match which is always lopsided.

Plus a lot of T1 players are not playing fair which makes matches even more lopsided and over very quick.

Here is a test for you OP want to have some real fun in MWO? Then gather up some friends or buddies and just drop in a private match first off you will see there are no real quick kills on ether side no matter what the persons skill rating is players just have fun plunking away at each other until the match is over.

Edited by KingCobra, 30 August 2017 - 06:09 AM.

[Appogee]

Daggett, on 30 August 2017 - 05:51 AM, said:

A better MM which takes more factors into account or differentiates within a tier level however would probably mean longer queue times because playerbase is not big enough for a more detailed MM.

Not necessarily.

All the matchmaker needs to do for a massive improvement in performance is better distribute the 24 players it already gathered for the match.

To do that it can easily all the data available on those 24 players - their more granular individual PSR scores, the tonnages and classes of their Mechs, whether they are in the same unit, k/d ratios, w/l ratios, etc.

There would be no additional wait. Just more evenly distributed teams.

[Karl Streiger]

Appogee, on 30 August 2017 - 06:19 AM, said:

Not necessarily.

All the matchmaker needs to do for a massive improvement in performance is better distribute the 24 players it already gathered for the match.

To do that it can easily all the data available on those 24 players - their more granular individual PSR scores, the tonnages and classes of their Mechs, whether they are in the same unit, k/d ratios, w/l ratios, etc.

There would be no additional wait. Just more evenly distributed teams.

of course its possible - but its a quick and simple bandaid.
the power of bandaids is strong with PGI but usually when simple fixes are available they consider this solution as to "simple"
so they don't do it - because in this development stage they "either do it perfect or not at all"
later when the issue becomes worse and worse - they will develop a bandaid - but this is would not be simple and it would hardly address the underlying issue.

PSR is such a thing when you think about it correctly - a over complicated system - with dozens of calculation that does not even do what it should compared to the prior Elo ranking - it also does not adress the underlying issue of diving the teams equal or calculating the "ranking" correct (back then i said that a 2000 Elo point ranked player is > 2 1000 point ranked player who are > 4 500 point ranked player and so on)

[KodiakGW]

Been this way for a while for me. I'm at the point of only playing if there is a decent additional event reward, or the "three strikes and I'm out of here" rule. Three games where the team completely melted, or a win where I had to do an excessive amount of work to make it happen. Watched my average match score drop about 40 points over past 5 days, twice as many losses as wins over that same period.

Mister Blastman, on 29 August 2017 - 02:18 PM, said:

Start reporting players that die right away at the start of a drop. Maybe PGI will get the message that we don't want this anymore?

Suicide lights, the sub 54kph assault taking the long walk around the edge of the map, the player who disconnected because they don't like the map/mode, the player who throws in the towel right away for the same reason. Note their name and report them all. They still playing, and on my team, a few days later doing the same.

Kicker was last night. First game, incursion mode. Right off, suicide light. Another delivers the first power node to.....jamming tower. Then runs into the main enemy group to die. Spent the rest of the game chasing a NARC'ing, TAG'ing, UAV'ing light away from the main battle, while watching the rest of my team melt faster than a stick of butter on the hood of a black car in the middle of a 120 degree desert. Very next game, 5 kills, 3 KMDD, same mech. 2 wins, 3 losses, done. Then switched over to Planetside 2 and had fun. Giving more time and money to Daybreak right now.

[Wildstreak]

suffocater, on 29 August 2017 - 10:23 AM, said:

This so called MM is poducing stomp after stomp. The only difference is on which side you land. PGI could shut it down, it couldn't get any worse.

Yes it could.

It could match you up against LoL teams, WoW tanks, etc.

See, worse.

Edited by Wildstreak, 30 August 2017 - 07:07 AM.

[Methanoid]

Appogee, on 30 August 2017 - 06:19 AM, said:

Not necessarily.

All the matchmaker needs to do for a massive improvement in performance is better distribute the 24 players it already gathered for the match.

To do that it can easily all the data available on those 24 players - their more granular individual PSR scores, the tonnages and classes of their Mechs, whether they are in the same unit, k/d ratios, w/l ratios, etc.

There would be no additional wait. Just more evenly distributed teams.

^ this, even if we do end up with tier 1-5 all mixed together, at least spread those tiers and performances evenly on both teams based on the players stats for the weight class they joined as.

[Methanoid]

KodiakGW, on 30 August 2017 - 06:36 AM, said:

Kicker was last night. First game, incursion mode. Right off, suicide light.

that is a bit of a bummer idd, but in contrast ive played quite a few dominations where myself in a light and if lucky 1 other light went to hold the circle, ALL the rest of the team were doing their circlejerk at range dance, no1 coming to re-inforce the lights and it always ended up with the 1-2 lights gettign rushed by a deathblob from the enemy and the lights get scrubbed nearly instantly because they had no support or reinforcement from the team.

So sometimes those lights do look like they suicided damned fast but its not always their fault, i suppose it depends on gamemode as well as wth the players were thinking, ive had a solo light burn into a blob of 3-4 of us before and got insta toasted, either their blind or maybe d/c'd while they had autorun on, who knows.

[KodiakGW]

Methanoid, on 30 August 2017 - 07:27 AM, said:

..who knows.

Nope. Looked like they were going to get the furthest power node (closest for enemy team), then hung a right and threw up a UAV...well out of range of any support. Surrounded by 4 mechs. Dead.

Gee...I wonder if there is an event running that require enemy detection by UAV...hmmm.

And yes, I've been the light holding domination solo. I know when to give up and always leave myself a safe passage for retreat. When the clock starts ticking down, then you get some support and circle back. Otherwise the solo puggies are more than happy to hide.

[Asym]

Stefka Kerensky, on 30 August 2017 - 04:16 AM, said:

See my post above.

No reason at all to put Proton and Boswer in the same team in 3 consecutive solo drops, even though playerbase is short.

I see that trend all of the time with names I recognize.... the same 3 or 4 players, game after game.....on both sides many times.

It has to be a very short player que..... There just aren't any other players in the que. It does make me wonder when one of the recurring players changes mechs into a heavier or lighter catagory though....

Anyone else notice this?

[The Lighthouse]

Just let you guys know, from the last years and early this year, we had about average of 30,000 players per 2 weeks.

Recent months suddenly that figure cut down to about 20,000. This may explains matchmaking situation a bit, not just quality, but also increased waiting time.

[Thorqemada]

There was a time when we had no ELO/Tier based MM, after that came ELO and after that the Tier based system we have now - we had stomps happen all the time regardless what kind of MM was used.

Matchmaking is there not to make fair fights but to increase the gaming experience and let the Players percive their matches as being fun and worthwhile.

With no ELO/Tierbased matchmaking this expoerience ranges form glorious to catstrophic and is not preferrable bcs it is dumb random luck and you dont want your playerbases gaming expoerience belong to dumb random luck.

With ELO (or "Elo" bcs it is a Name and Not an Abbreviation afair) we had overall even Teams but made of individually extremely differently skilled kind of players that forced Top-Elo-Players to carry their Teams of "Potatos" against a Team that had a better average Skillset and was less depending on a single Player and with 12vs12 numbers matter and the playing experience was rightfully criticised and shelved eventually.

The Tier-System was introduced yet it is not really a Tier System that ranks you accordingly to your skill and success of gameplay but it is a camouflaged "Experience-Bar" that Matches the best Players against anyone but the very least experienced Players until they climb into Tier 4 (where they start anyway afaik) so in fact you be matched against the best of the best from Day 1 of your MWO experience which means "Why The **** Did PGI Make A New Matchmaking System Anyway?" and it is hard to belive it enhances the gaming epxerience of whomever!

Like many of the MWO Developments it is at best a Sidegrade shaking things up for a slight while until people realize we went into a full cirlce and nothing got better.

I truly belive that PGI or the Devs at PGI or the Players of MWO have good intentions when they suggest changes/implement changes but PGI has the sad Talent to make things different at best or otherwise even worse.

The best things of MWO still origin from its very early development state but...
CW is a Mess.
MM is a Mess.
12 vs 12 is a Mess.
Consumables be a Mess
UI xyz is a pretty Mess
The Skilltree is Mess
The Balance is a Mess
Voting is a Mess

And like the first day of MWO-Beta with dumb random luck you have sometimes a match that amazes you and makes you eat 10 more bad Matches but after years that becomes more and more annoying seeing they/we have done all these things but achieved so little.

Still the hope makes you lurk further in the darkness of the Forums playing a match now and then...

Edited by Thorqemada, 30 August 2017 - 05:08 PM.

[InspectorG]

suffocater, on 29 August 2017 - 10:23 AM, said:

This so called MM is poducing stomp after stomp. The only difference is on which side you land. PGI could shut it down, it couldn't get any worse.

This is normal for 12 v 12 no rspawn via the snowball effect.

MM isnt worse but im convinced the player base is less skilled than when PSR first dropped. Those were he days..........

[Xaat Xuun]

seems to me there needs to just be more pilots.

thought I'd say that, not like no one don't know

[justcallme A S H]

KingCobra, on 30 August 2017 - 06:08 AM, said:

The MM is the same as it always has been OP lousy at matching players based on skill.

But now it(the MM) has far less players to try and match with which is even worse because it just throws together any tier players in a random fashion to make a match which is always lopsided.

Plus a lot of T1 players are not playing fair which makes matches even more lopsided and over very quick.

Here is a test for you OP want to have some real fun in MWO? Then gather up some friends or buddies and just drop in a private match first off you will see there are no real quick kills on ether side no matter what the persons skill rating is players just have fun plunking away at each other until the match is over.

1. It does not match on skill. It matches on PSR. As has been covered many times PSR Tier is not a direct correlation to player ability.

2. The drop off of active accounts is around 8,000 over the past 12 months (I've actually checked the numbers recently). The main departure, from what I've seen in-game, is it's better players that have stopped playing. This means the amount of average or below average players has risen in each drop. Meaning all it can take quite often is 1-2 decent players on one team to dictate the outcome of a match where previously when there were more good players in matches, it was a little more balanced.

3. How are T1 players, not playing fair? They have access to the same mechs/weapons as everyone else.

4. There absolutely are quick kills in a private lobby. I play comp, I drop in private lobbies all the time. You make a stupid mistake, you are dead. No online game rewards a player for making a bad decision or poor gameplay, nor should it.


You are showing you once again have a grave lack of understanding of MWO. Given you barely play the game and spend more time on the forums starting threads about hysteria without any proof/fact or otherwise - I would suggest you actually play the game and then you might attain a better understanding of it.

The Lighthouse, on 30 August 2017 - 01:29 PM, said:

Just let you guys know, from the last years and early this year, we had about average of 30,000 players per 2 weeks.

Recent months suddenly that figure cut down to about 20,000. This may explains matchmaking situation a bit, not just quality, but also increased waiting time.

Just to let you know, the actual facts are:


It's dropped from 38,000 a month to 31,000 a month (accounts with more than 10 games). Not sure where 30,000 in 2 weeks come from as the leaderboards data clearly says otherwise - fact only please.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 14 September 2017 - 10:24 PM.