12 replies to this topic

[Clownwarlord]

OK 8v8 can help MWO by getting people into matches faster. But here are some issues.

- Map Sizes
- Drop Zones
- Cap Locations
- Economy
- Mech Builds

Now I will break it down each one for you to help understand what I am mentioning.

Map Sizes:
Now with this we have seen issues since Alpine Peaks and when the game was 8v8. How so? Well both teams would go the opposite direction on the huge map to flank around the map to attack the enemy base. But since both teams went the opposite way it turned what could have been a great melee into a cap race.

Can this be fixed?

Yes it can be fixed if MWO does go down to 8v8 all they have to do is draw the boundaries in a way to prevent this basically shrink every map.

Drop Zones:
Another issue partly because of map size but some of the more recent maps where designed with dropping three lances not two onto the map. Also because there are fewer mechs for your team now you will have to have them dropped closer to each other. Back in the day when this game was 8v8 before the teams where dropped in a death ball to start and now we may have to go back to that.

Can this be fixed?

Yes it can be fixed if MWO does go down to 8v8 all they have to do is find a new drop zone to better suit dropping the 8 mechs closer together in a beneficial way for both teams.

Cap Locations:
With 12v12 the game had caps placed in areas to suit the 3 drop zones of each team. but now you are missing a lance and the drop zones will need to change and then the cap locations may need to change also to better suit the new drop zones. On top of that to help prevent never seeing the enemy on BIG maps the maps will need to be changed which will also cause for cap locations needing to be changed.

Can this be fixed?

Yes it can be fixed if MWO does go down to 8v8 all they have to do is first shirnk the maps, then find new drop zones and cap locations that will help promote combat.

Economy:
Jokes have been made about this subject in the past, but with taking away 4 mechs that can be shot to add up to cbills means you are making the game more of a grind. Too much grind will cause people especially new players to not want to play because it will take them longer to do things such as: Skill their mech, rebuild their mech, or even to upgrade their mech.

Can this be fixed?

Yes it can be fixed if MWO does go down to 8v8 all they have to do is give out more cbills for the 8 mechs to match what was 12 mechs.

Mech Builds:
Here is something that many have not thought of. But if you have to change map size, drop zones, and cap locations then this will affect mech builds. Not to say they couldn't be used but ranged builds are less likely to be used. Why? because more than likely with 8v8 the map is smaller which means drop zones are closer and cap locations are closer all to promote more fighting. Which means mechs are going to be shooting at closer ranges not farther.

Can this be fixed?

No not really, it will purely cost the player to rebuild their mechs to better suit the new drop zones, smaller maps, and cap locations. Costing the player base for a change that the game makes with out any way to counter it just makes people angry. When people get angry at a game they usually stop playing it. This issues doesn't affect those with smaller mech counts but those who have numerous mechs now have to refurbish them all and that will take more time (click warrior) and cbills.


NOW:
I have an alternative solution than going from 12v12 down to 8v8. Get rid of regional servers. By getting rid of regional servers and placing everyone back into one bucket for quick play. Instead of having people who select only one region or maybe two.

Will this cause issues?
Yes, players will get angry because for some they will be forced to play on servers in a region where they have a higher ping and in some cases high enough ping that will make the game unplayable.

Can that issue be solved for?
Nope.

***************************************************
But hey I am just giving an alternative for better or worse as well as solutions to other issues that may arrive from going 12v12 to 8v8. Why? because I am trying to just point these out to help mitigate damage to the community of a game I do love to play for which ever way PGI decides to go.

[Almond Brown]

Quote

is give out more cbills for the 8 Mech's to match what was 12 mechs.

Can we also take the armor off of the 4 Mechs I used to have on my Team, and spread it across the other 8 Mech's so it too will be like the 12 Mech Teams worth of armor? Sounds legit... Please. LOL!

[KodiakGW]

I thought about arguing every one of your points. But, since you are one of the ones PGI listens to, why bother. If you can not see the obvious flaws in every one of your arguments, I'm wasting my time typing. Try playing devils advocate to your own post. Here is a hint, I already blew away your Maps argument in a prior post on another thread. Find it yourself.

So, let's keep everything going the same way it has been going. I've done some preliminary numbers based on the leaderboards. Year over year for August we have lost between 1/6 to 1/5 the player base. Will have exact numbers once this season ends.

"Stay the course, thousand points of light..."

[El Bandito]

KodiakGW, on 31 August 2017 - 05:49 AM, said:

So, let's keep everything going the same way it has been going. I've done some preliminary numbers based on the leaderboards. Year over year for August we have lost between 1/6 to 1/5 the player base. Will have exact numbers once this season ends.

If anything, your statistics proved that things should not go the same way it has been going.

[Bigbacon]

am I the only one that doesn't seem to have to wait very long at all to get into matches in QP?? I mean I play all weight classes and I'm not waiting very long.

Although I play on both NA and EU because my EU ping is only about 40ms more than NA.

Edited by Bigbacon, 31 August 2017 - 05:57 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Can somebody bothered to explain the economy stuff to me?
Why is 12 vs 12 any different from 8vs8. Its not like you are fighting alone vs 12.
You have 11 other guys in your team, then 7 that shoot at the same number of mechs.

sure the number of assists will be reduced. but when you put down 3 mechs on your own now, you will still be able to do the same in a 8vs8 enviroment

of course you can say that PGI knows it better - because when they increased to 12v12 from 8v8 they said that the income need to be reduced because there were more mechs to shot at?
Not that it does make sense then and now. Although people also asking for more ammo since they started with 12v12. But again its a different name for the same fish

WHY?

[Khobai]

Quote

Well both teams would go the opposite direction on the huge map to flank around the map to attack the enemy base. But since both teams went the opposite way it turned what could have been a great melee into a cap race.

um the solution to that is to fix assault gamemode not shrink the maps

assault gamemode needs a massive update. its basically a beta testing gamemode that has never been updated once.

I personally think assault should be more like CTF. you should have to capture data beacons from the enemy half of the map and bring them back to your base. but you should also be able to capture info from the enemy base as well. mechs would be limited to carrying one at a time and would drop it if theyre destroyed. first team to get the required number of data beacons or destroy the entire enemy team would win.

that would encourage use of the entire map and prevent base rushing. and it gives fast light/medium mechs something to do.

Edited by Khobai, 31 August 2017 - 06:36 AM.

[Mcgral18]

They could also fix the game modes to not be trash



Asymm needs more consideration, unlike simultaneous, unfun, cap rushing

[El Bandito]

Karl Streiger, on 31 August 2017 - 06:03 AM, said:

Why is 12 vs 12 any different from 8vs8. Its not like you are fighting alone vs 12.
You have 11 other guys in your team, then 7 that shoot at the same number of mechs.

sure the number of assists will be reduced. but when you put down 3 mechs on your own now, you will still be able to do the same in a 8vs8 enviroment

Putting down 3 mechs in 8v8 has more impact than in 12v12. I prefer not to be in pug lottery's mercy as much as possible, especially in SQ, and 8v8 provides me that. As a bonus, I can finally have enough ammo to last through every single match with ammo using mechs, once 8v8 is in.

Also, many people mistakenly believe that in 8v8 the number of mechs shooting at you at the same time will not decrease compared to 12v12, and TTK will not increase. That is misguided belief, of course. Sure, the number of mechs shooting at you at the same time will probably remain the same, however, the frequency in which you are being targeted by multiple mechs will decrease. And that makes a difference.

Edited by El Bandito, 31 August 2017 - 06:39 AM.

[Wrathful Scythe]

While I prefered 8v8, I don't see it ever happen in quickplay again. PGI has put significant ressources in making 12v12 a thing. Multiple maps got adjusted to fit the bigger size and regional servers are a blessing for some players. And those things took years to get implemented properly.

[El Bandito]

Wrathful Scythe, on 31 August 2017 - 06:41 AM, said:

While I prefered 8v8, I don't see it ever happen in quickplay again. PGI has put significant ressources in making 12v12 a thing. Multiple maps got adjusted to fit the bigger size and regional servers are a blessing for some players. And those things took years to get implemented properly.

Russ already said that they will try out 8v8 in the PTR, so the possibility of switching back to 8v8 is very real.

[Clownwarlord]

I would like to point out I played this game when it was 8v8. But when PGI moved to 12v12 PGI also decreased the amount earned because the earning potential was raised. So to go back from 12v12 to 8v8 PGI may need to adjust cbills earned again also because other modules of the game are based off of current earning potentials. Example of a game module based off of current earning potential is skill node cost.

As for 8v8 or 12v12 I don't really care which I am just trying to get a thread started to talk about multiple issues with 8v8 or 12v12 or other potential solutions to help decrease wait times for quick play. Which surprisingly I do not have much of an issue with ... more so I have an issue with match maker which 8 v 8 will help that by cutting down on the POTENTIAL for unbalancing based on gates being opened due to longer wait times.

[KodiakGW]

El Bandito, on 31 August 2017 - 05:55 AM, said:

If anything, your statistics proved that things should not go the same way it has been going.

Exactly. Sarcasm was implied and reinforced with the "Thousand points of light" reference.