39 replies to this topic

[qS Sachiel]

InfinityBall, on 01 September 2017 - 07:29 PM, said:

Which is irrelevant, even if correct (you're also getting kill assists and conceivably KMDD and KB)

If it's a cbill sink, it should return nothing. Either you're right, and the returns are trivial, in which case they don't matter to the users, or you're wrong, in which case they're not working as intended for PGI

Or you're wrong because you have the false dilemma fallacy engrained in your head and the majority of users produce a net decrease in global cb and all this complaining is observer bias at its best?

[mailin]

I'm curious for those of you whining about how OP strikes are, do you play more in quick play or in FW? The reason I ask this is that I find some players who think they are really good do a LOT of pop tarting or have other playstyles that encourage staying in one spot. The single best way to avoid getting hit by strikes is to not remain stationary for too long. Generally speaking, most players don't want to waste their strikes on enemies that are moving, so there ya go. Even in my Stalker I try to not hold still for too long. AND I consider red smoke a sign that I have been in one spot for too long. Rather than complain about something in the game being OP, maybe do a self-examination.

Edited by mailin, 02 September 2017 - 02:58 AM.

[AppleseeN]

Tactical Aid not the problem , problem is that we lack of TA choice. And actually we must turn away the TA from "consumeables" to actually Tactical Points earned by player preformance in battle.

[Ensaine]

I posted this in another thread... but it's just as good here......

Airstrikes/Artillery Strikes are simply out of control. Way too many spammed over way too short of a time.

Several ways around it, just tossing crap out: team wide /global cooldown, limit per mech, increase cost, combination of one or more perhaps.....but, they are way out of hand.

If I'm standing there like a moomah, and miss the smoke, ok, my problem, my armor. There DOES need to be an audible warning, however, like a BB announcement 'Airstrike Proximity Alert' due to people NOT being able to see the smoke when zoomed in.

70% or more of the ones defending them are THOSE people who spam these mercilessly.

I'm not saying they don't have a place and time, just reign them in......

[qS Sachiel]

Ensaine, on 02 September 2017 - 04:54 AM, said:

I posted this in another thread... but it's just as good here......

Airstrikes/Artillery Strikes are simply out of control. Way too many spammed over way too short of a time.

Several ways around it, just tossing crap out: team wide /global cooldown, limit per mech, increase cost, combination of one or more perhaps.....but, they are way out of hand.

If I'm standing there like a moomah, and miss the smoke, ok, my problem, my armor. There DOES need to be an audible warning, however, like a BB announcement 'Airstrike Proximity Alert' due to people NOT being able to see the smoke when zoomed in.

70% or more of the ones defending them are THOSE people who spam these mercilessly.

I'm not saying they don't have a place and time, just reign them in......

70% that's some high quality stats you got there sir.
just like the people saying it is good money maker
or that you get kills every round
or that it's super damaging to the playerbase.

put up or shut up.

70% ahhahahahaha.

[STEF_]

It's like the 1000th thread I agree with.
48 potential strikes in a match is just so stooooooooooooopid..... so, pgi won't fix it.

[PAYWALL]

Coolshots are more useful, except on low heat mechs. Most of the time i end up spending those arty skillpoints elsewhere. If i have to choose between 2x full extra alpha strike with good accuracy vs. a heavily delayed airstrike, i go with the former.

[STEF_]

mailin, on 01 September 2017 - 06:15 PM, said:

Sorry, but I find this topic REALLY funny. Mainly because it's sooooo much whining. Get over it. If they're doing too much damage to you, here's a news flash, YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING WRONG.

funny fact, proton in his stream is regularly taking strikes piloting assaults.
But there is a good news: we found an unknown player that can give pro-tip to proton, which is unaware he is doing something wrong, BUT you, far better than him, can save him!
Please......

[Racerxintegra2k]

Airstrikes/Arty need to go. This is a game about pvp mech combat artillery is a cheap pay to win mechanic. Long tom DESTROYED faction play once and for all, people ran from faction play because of it. Arty/Airstrike will have the same effect overall in the game. Its a cheesy way to play.

[Brain Cancer]

They're going to find ways to make your C-bill gain go down. It's shiny winsplosives now, or it'll be something less entertaining to MUST MAKE BOOM PRESS BUTTON types.

Embrace your new airstrike overlords, or accept the explosion spam as the positive results (you die, they don't) thoroughly infect the playerbase like a sexually transmitted disease. And again, it's not P2W if it doesn't take real money. It's just taking your virtual spacebucks.

As long as it increases grind and F2P playtime, the only people to blame are the people hitting the strike button. PGI just blundered on to the right method to appeal to the underhive.

[InfinityBall]

btw, check out the heavy gauss thread for a hilarious example of how people here think airstrikes turn HG into a good weapon

edit: TLDR: guy does ~1200 damage over a few matches, of which 300-500 are from his 42 tons of gauss and ammo while spamming strikes. Success!

Edited by InfinityBall, 02 September 2017 - 12:33 PM.

[C E Dwyer]

Brain Cancer, on 01 September 2017 - 02:08 PM, said:

If you ever wonder why strikes are the way they are, remember that they're designed to suck C-bills from impulsive and power-hungry players as fast as possible.

If they're annoying to use or not potent, they fail to be the juicy carrot that leads you to spend, spend, spend and thus grind, grind, grind more, increasing average time spent playing and buffing the server numbers

True they're a money sink, but if they annoy people to much the c-bill sink has a negitive effect on P.G.I's income and with the expansion or consumable slots it's more likely to happen

[InfinityBall]

qS Sachiel, on 02 September 2017 - 12:49 AM, said:

Or you're wrong because you have the false dilemma fallacy engrained in your head and the majority of users produce a net decrease in global cb and all this complaining is observer bias at its best?

coherent thoughts: how the *bleep* do they work?

A) that was not a false dilemma. Either they're draining cbills or they're not.
B ) observer bias never came into this. I made no claims of what I observed

Edited by InfinityBall, 02 September 2017 - 12:36 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

Cathy, on 02 September 2017 - 12:33 PM, said:

True they're a money sink, but if they annoy people to much the c-bill sink has a negitive effect on P.G.I's income and with the expansion or consumable slots it's more likely to happen

I've never said it was good for the game in the long run. I'm just saying what it's good for.

Sucking up C-bills and making people feel good while lobbing their AoE grenades into combat.

[Grandpaw]

Star Trek Online loves them strikes! Its the reason I quit MWO and went back to giving STO my spare $ every week lol

[qS Sachiel]

InfinityBall, on 02 September 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

coherent thoughts: how the *bleep* do they work?

A) that was not a false dilemma. Either they're draining cbills or they're not.
B ) observer bias never came into this. I made no claims of what I observed

Read my post again. You gave two specific options and excluded any possibility of other options being available or that your qualifying criteria were wrong.


Secondly, you assert that cbill increase occurs on a per user basis (observer) and exclude the aggregate performance of the mechanic across the entire population. If a select few get consistent or average increase in cbills and the majority do not, what do you think the aggregate behaviour produces across the entire population using them?

The way you worded your assertions implied that you will he kmdd, components etc, when nobody has provided any proof of the consistency of this across the player base. If you base your opinions off your day to day plays you are only one data point and may not be representative of the population. Simple observer bias.

Further, although I quoted you, these views (that cbills increase on average with strike use, that they are great earners, that try guarantee components, kmdd, kills) are used frequently in the remove camp, so my post was meant more as a general comment at this camp. Take that as you will.

Finally, to go even further: the OP began the thread on the defensive, countering 'claims to defend strikes' despite the points listed mostly being common sense strategy to avoid damage from them. Op gave no reason for removing strikes or information to support why the suggestion to remove them are valid. Again, I've seen nothin here other than 'strikes op' (baseless, emotive), 'strikes are a crutch'(ad hominem), 'strikes raise your cbills because they on average do enough damage, component destroyed and kills to be an earner'(baseless, anecdotal), even '70% of people defending them abise them all the time'(ad hominem, baseless, emotive).

Edited by qS Sachiel, 02 September 2017 - 08:37 PM.

[panzer1b]

The whole c-bill sink argument is also invalid imo, since i consistently make enough credits EVERY single game (aside from the occasional screw up which happens to us all) to pay for 2 airstrikes and a uav and still make 100K or so atop that, and there is very little i need to actually buy in teh game anyways since i have all the mechs i believe are remotely fun and my style to play. In other words, the whole making people grind is useless (at least for my) since im assuming most people (who dont spam the strikes pointlessly and waste them for no good reason) would make a profit just from that 300-500 dmg each strike would do (and even more if you manage to destroy some components or kill people).

Still, i think the best thing that can be done is to MASSIVELY up the global cooldown. let people have their strikes (just so that there is some way to break up deathballs and formations and get snipers out of their perches), but limit it to like 1 every 30s at the most. Thatd force people to think about when they use the things and not just drop 2 of them in the span of 10 seconds or so on teh same bloody target that likely cant even move to evade or in not even aware of the strike (who drops them in front of someone, its almost always behind a building or somewhere where the enemy never gets warning).

If that isnt enough, i suggest making the strikes both range limited and perhaps require a weapon such a tag laser or "airstrike-laser" that doesnt need to be heavy, but it should have SOME tonnage investment so that people need to make a choice to bring the strike launcher or stick to pure heatsink spam. This will keep people from 3km sniping with the strikes (ive seen this all the time on alpine), and it will keep the strikes from being a instant no-brainer to bring with you (its 1 skill point to get a strike and a uav, and its 5 skill points to get 2 maxed out strikes (which will easily do over 500 dmg if you use them correctly), which is frankly a much better investment then most other skills would be (assuming you are good enough to make ~15000 creds per game ur all set and make profit).

Other then that, i guess we have to deal with the damn things. Its not THAT hard to evade them if you arent in a assault and have some sort of situational awareness (most of the time its quite obvious where people are going to deploy the strikes even if you never see smoke). Pretty much whenever you see a traffic jam on brawly maps like mining, just avoid being a part of it, odds are that is gonna eat quite alot of strikes.

[miscreant]

I'll come back to the game if they do this...

[Brain Cancer]

If you wonder why the cooldown is so low, think of it in terms of getting everyone to expend all their strikes.

24 strikes with a 30 second cooldown for each team means you'd have to have people popping one off every 30 seconds from the start...and even then, you'd need nearly a full match to do so (12 minutes). 15 second cooldowns = 6 minutes of constant striking, much more likely from PGI's point of view to get people tossing those booms, hence C-bills, hence winning for PGI because they're increasing your playtime as a F2P type, or encouraging you in a positive sense (MUH DAMAGE!) to pick up premium time or MC to make up for it.

It won't do much to the Elder Whale types, but it'll set a new standard for everyone else. And that's the point. Heck, oldgolds tossing C-bills like candy just makes the red smoke lifestyle more a "do it or else" thing for the average mass of players...and that's what PGI wants.

[InfinityBall]

qS Sachiel, on 02 September 2017 - 08:12 PM, said:

Read my post again. You gave two specific options and excluded any possibility of other options being available or that your qualifying criteria were wrong.

You were free to try to provide one. you have not.

Quote

Secondly, you assert that cbill increase occurs on a per user basis (observer) and exclude the aggregate performance of the mechanic across the entire population.

False

Quote

If a select few get consistent or average increase in cbills and the majority do not, what do you think the aggregate behaviour produces across the entire population using them?

irrelevant question is irrelevant

Quote

The way you worded your assertions implied that you will he kmdd, components etc, when nobody has provided any proof of the consistency of this across the player base. If you base your opinions off your day to day plays you are only one data point and may not be representative of the population. Simple observer bias.

Further, although I quoted you, these views (that cbills increase on average with strike use, that they are great earners, that try guarantee components, kmdd, kills) are used frequently in the remove camp, so my post was meant more as a general comment at this camp. Take that as you will.

Finally, to go even further: the OP began the thread on the defensive, countering 'claims to defend strikes' despite the points listed mostly being common sense strategy to avoid damage from them. Op gave no reason for removing strikes or information to support why the suggestion to remove them are valid. Again, I've seen nothin here other than 'strikes op' (baseless, emotive), 'strikes are a crutch'(ad hominem), 'strikes raise your cbills because they on average do enough damage, component destroyed and kills to be an earner'(baseless, anecdotal), even '70% of people defending them abise them all the time'(ad hominem, baseless, emotive).

As I've mentioned, we had a really comical "buff heavy gauss" thread yesterday where the defense of the heavy gauss turned out to be videos of an Annihilator doing 300-500 damage with its 42 tons of gauss and 900-800 damage with its 9 tons of lasers and its strikes.